81 308 2v Fuel injection problems | FerrariChat

81 308 2v Fuel injection problems

Discussion in '308/328' started by Doright, Mar 20, 2007.

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  1. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    Well, got all my new parts on today new fuel pump and starter but still no run. Got spark, got fuel, got no air! The metering plate will not move down!
    Its very stiff going down! moves good after fuel press is removed but as soon as fuel press hits it it stays all the way up.
    If its held down a tiny bit the engine does try to start.

    Is there an easy fix for this problem Without having too buy a whole new metering manifold?
    Can the metering plate manifold assembly be rebuilt like a carb?
    Does any one rebuild them?
    Is it possible the problem is external to the fuel metering manifold?
     
  2. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    I could be wrong here, but check to be sure the fuel ins and out lines are hooked up to the right ins and outs on both the fuel distributor and the warm up regulator. Having too much pressure on the return line might do that - or your "cold control pressure" is too high could be a malfunction of the warm up regulator or the internal fuel pressure regulator.

    If you have access to the Mondial 8 Workshop Manual, figure D25 shows the system flows.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    I was looking at the same figure while working on it and was wondering the same thing???

    I am no expert with this system, and that manual leaves alot to be desired.
     
  4. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    Amen there.
    There are a couple of good Bosch FI books available - the one I used was something like "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection" I got at Barnes and Nobles. Before I sent it off to be rebuilt, I'd sure get a decent book - even a Mercedes/VW/Volvo book as they all used K-jetronic, and the 81 has about the simplest version.

    Would at least start by verifying correct plumbing as we said, then look at the WUR.

    Good luck!
     
  5. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    I know my fuel lines are correct as far as in and out of the main meetering horn goes preaty har to mess that up. But im kinda wondering about the fuel acumulator though I wonder if it was bad if Ya would have this type of problem.
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    the accumulator should not give you that problem. - you can verify by taking it out of the system - the car should still run fine while sitting still without it.

    A possible culprit could be the WU regulator.
     
  7. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,347
    Dumpster Fire #31
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    SMG
    Right, the accumulator only holds the line pressure for 30~45mins after shut off. vapor lock and fuel surge protection. however it also dampens the sudden force of fuel pressure during start up.
    sounds like a possible issue with the pressure regulator not sending excess fuel back to the tank. the control pressure regulator known as the WUR controls the counterforce on the metering plate, check that as well.

    how is plate movement with the system off? if it's sticking due to the plunger then it's probably time to get it rebuilt by Larry.
     
  8. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    Forgive my terminoligy but I just came back in from the shop, after playing with it more.
    I have removed the fuel manifold now, I checked the main press regulating deal all looks good no bad orings no scratches in the piston all the springs are there as well as the washers all looks good seams to be sliding in the bore nice.

    But I belive it to be a main meatering problem as well some how i am not getting the press drop from the hi side to the low side to allow plate to operate, This thing is tight too when fuel press is on it really hard to push down.

    I am going to clean up again and hit the sack and call it a night,
    I will probably dissesemble the main manifold tomarow even thow the piston is moveing freely, book said to check it with air but I didnt want to start my compressor up and wake every one up. blew a little carb cleaner in there just to make sure it was all clean.
    I am also wondering if the thing has a hole in the diaphram some how getting full fuel pressure on both sides of the piston.
    Just wondering if gaskets are available for it or if i am just going to have to buy a new manifold. Bet I cant get either and have to buy a whole new unit altogether.
    That and if I do take it apart how many tiny parts will fall out?????

    Plate moves freely and bonces twice now like book say's bye the way with the fuel manifold removed, I just wonder if the warm up deal is doing all this?
     
  9. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    Another thing now that I am awake,
    I am getting no fuel out of return line to fuel tank, anouther reason I thought it was the main fuel pressure reg valve was sticking but it comes out and is clean. all looks good.?????
    So why no fuel out return line
     
  10. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    Dumpster Fire #31
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    SMG
    pressure regulator internal to the metering unit controls the fuel return. it also gets a pressure signal from the WUR.
     
  11. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    Is it possible the WUR were to be stuck in a nuetral position providing full fuel press on both sides of the manifold piston?

    And ifso can the WUR be dissassembled cleaned and reinstalled?
     
  12. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    Finally got it running after playing with it all day finding and fixing a bunch of vacume leak's.
    Saying it runs bad is an understatement (will only run with throtle held wide open) then it almost caught fire again.
    Rear cat was glowing a bit, although no fire or damage this time as I was watching for that. Glad I hadnt fixed all the previous fire damage although I have collocted all the parts to fix that finally.

    I give up for today, I think I need a new fuel manifold and maybe a new WUR valve, Got spark on both banks so I dont think its an ignition problem.
    What the heck do I know though, If there was a good Ferrari mechanic around I would give up for some help and schooling.
    Ganna get worse shot gunning parts that dont need to be changed.
     
  13. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,347
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    start with a small cost.
    ISBN 0-8376-0300-5
    that's the Bentley book on the Bosch fuel systems. great info on the CIS, after that reading you'll need the WSM for setting the ferrari specific things.

    PM me and I can send off a copy of the WSM to you. between these two items a few nights of reading with your favorite glass of wine/scotch you should be able to figure out the problem and not have to 'shotgun' $$$$$ at the problem. :)

    we're here to help the addiction ;)
     
  14. Doright

    Doright Karting

    Jan 19, 2007
    73
    Pahrump NV.
    Full Name:
    Dennis B.
    I want too thank every one that has tried too help me I found the problem today after starting over and pulling both dist. caps and spark plug wires and ohming them out double checking every thing, I took a break and came in and checked to see if any one had left me any new things to check here at the web site and did another search on the problem in the web site search deal and read about a guy who had a similar problem and had found a bad TDC sensor cause all his woe's.
    I then said no way it couldnt be that simple but went out and looked around any way hoping for a quick fix and then there it was a bolt pinching one of the TDC sensor wires I was completely dumbfounded I couldn't believe what I was seeing and couldn't believe it but went ahead and put it all back together too see if it was it and sure enough that's all it was all this time.

    I still have too fix all the previous damage from the fire but I got it back too running any way that's done thanks for all your help every one.
     

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