'81 308GTSi wholesale value | Page 2 | FerrariChat

'81 308GTSi wholesale value

Discussion in '308/328' started by RED 4RE, Sep 4, 2009.

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  1. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,198
    Seattle, Washington
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    Cliff
    #26 CliffBeer, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
    There's an important trend which has been in play for a few years now - the distinction between wholesale, retail and private party is blurring more and more all the time. Why? The informational power and reach of the internet is allowing all interested parties to play in a more transparent and equal manner.

    Merely having a dealer's license doesn't entitle anyone to anything these days, other than to be able to make a completely low ball offer with a straight face. Dealers don't sell other dealers cars at substantial discounts as they did twenty years ago. Dealers will increasing sell a slow-moving car retail (typically, using the internet) at a modest discount rather than sell it to another dealer at a larger discount. Why? The marketing and transaction costs of selling cars retail are coming down with the speed of the internet, and, they can still potentially make a little money on the car.

    Behold the power of information (internet)!
     
  2. ZiFF

    ZiFF Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2009
    323
    #27 ZiFF, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
    One car may not represent the entire population, but "Book value" means nothing. The people writing the books aren't cutting checks for any cars.

    I showed you an actual WHOLESALE sale from less than 60 days ago. HIGH TEENS.

    The original poster asked for a "ballpark" figure for the WHOLESALE value of an '81 US 2 Valve.

    "Ballpark" is high teens. Period. Drive your average '81 2V to a Ferrari retailer and ask them to cut you a check. They will, but, for, ballpark, high teens. Like the poster said above, there are a lot of risks with these cars.

    Ferrari dealer (independent or franchise) do not buy '81 2Vs with the intent to try to make $2K or 10% on the car. Honda dealers do that with late model, factory warranty cars, but that doesn't work with old Ferraris, esp. in a declining market. Too much risk for that. They will pay high teens with the expectation to market in the high twenties or low thirties, and hope for a sale in the mid-upper 20s.
     
  3. ZiFF

    ZiFF Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2009
    323
    Not true. First, a dealer's license entitles one to go to a "dealer's only" auction and buy a car, like the '81 308 that I pointed out that sold for $18K. Having a dealer's license entitled the buyer to buy that particular car at that price. Without the license, he could not have gotten that car.

    Also, it is absolutely incorrect that dealers don't sell their slow moving inventory to other dealers. They do it ALL the time. (At least the high line dealerships in California do, maybe local practice are different elsewhere, but I doubt it).

    Also, all franchise, factory dealerships sell a LARGE majority of trade ins to other dealers or wholesalers. They are never advertised because they aren't the type of cars that dealership is interested in selling (either because of the make, model, mileage, condition, etc.). If you have a dealer's license, you can get access to those.
     
  4. irondogmike

    irondogmike F1 Rookie

    Sep 8, 2006
    2,532
    San Diego area
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    Michael Tucker
    #29 irondogmike, Sep 6, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009

    I've bought and sold a ferrari and shop for ferrari's and nada.com has been very close to anything out there. ebay are dreamers on what they want and hoping to get for their cars. when you buy your ferrari let us know how that went. But again I'm talking about a well sorted out car not one that needs attention right off the bat when you get it.
     
  5. tommott77

    tommott77 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2009
    652
    NC
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    Tom
    Okay I just checked NADA for myself and I will admit that I was wrong regarding their accuracy.

    NADA actually supports what I have been saying thus far. Average retail for an 82 GTSi at $24,100, low retail $23,100. NADA did not publish a wholesale price. Again original question posed on the thread was asking about WHOLESALE prices and a lot of people here still don't realize that or don't understand what a wholesale price actually is. A wholesale price is the price you would get for your car if you take it to the dealer to trade in or sell outright. If the low retail according to NADA is $23,100 that would put the wholesale price squarely in the in the high teens as several of us have been saying.

    I am not trying to hurt anybodys' feelings here, again wholesale prices do not reflect what you would get for your car if you tried to sell it yourself. I have never, and never will, trade in a car for this reason. My past experiences buying and selling cars was taught me to discount what NADA and KBB publish and merely use thos publications as a rule of thumb at best. But comparing the current 308i market to NADA I have to say that it appears to be right on the money.
     
  6. irondogmike

    irondogmike F1 Rookie

    Sep 8, 2006
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    San Diego area
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    Tom,I don't know much about wholesale but you may be right. I'll never again will trade a car into a dealer,but sell it my self.I'm very happy of what I got for my car but wish I still had it.In my heart it was worth twice as much,but these times suck right now:),I hope everyone out there who buys their first ferrari gets it for what they want to spend and not more,buy it to make you happy,not to just have it.
     
  7. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Cliff
    #32 CliffBeer, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
    Thank you for correcting me Ziff.

    My background knowledge here is limited to merely owning a large auto dealership, so, you must obviously know more on the subject.

    Again, thank you.


     
  8. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Cliff
    #33 CliffBeer, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
    Ziff, that's strange, the local Ferrari dealership (Ferrari Seattle) calls me on pretty much every single ferrari I sell, including 2V 308s, asking if they can buy it at a low ball price or consign it. Hhmmm.

     
  9. irondogmike

    irondogmike F1 Rookie

    Sep 8, 2006
    2,532
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    after two days putting my 308qv on cars dot com,mohr auto group from monterey called wanting me to put my car on their floor to sale at a 10% cost,I said no and the car sold the next day at my asking price 10k more than they said my car was worth,f*** them
     
  10. ZiFF

    ZiFF Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2009
    323
    Then you should know that dealerships sell quite a few of their trade in and inventory to other dealers/wholesalers.
     
  11. ZiFF

    ZiFF Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2009
    323
    Exactly.

    They call you with a low ball offer, because they aren't in the business of trying to buy an old 2V 308 to try to make $2K or 10% on it. That's what I said. It's the reason wholesale/trade in numbers are so low on cars like that.

    I'm glad we at least could agree on that.
     
  12. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,198
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Cliff
    Ziff, yes, that's obvious.

    My point was different and a little more precise. To be specific again, the point is that the power of available information (primarily via the internet and internet-based marketing) is a) narrowing the gap between wholesale and retail pricing, and, b) lessening the distinction between retail dealer sales and private party or wholesale sales. The trend is the significant element here - a trend which I expect to continue, and one which all dealerships, including mine, are having to adapt to while still adding value to the consumer in some manner to justify a profit. For example, the delta between dealer auction prices and private party sales is much smaller now than it was 20 years ago, hence my suggestion that being a dealer doesn't get the dealer a whole lot in economic terms.
     
  13. ZiFF

    ZiFF Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2009
    323
    #38 ZiFF, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
    I agree that margins have certainly gotten smaller. I'm not sure of the reason for that, though. At least here on the West coast, a lot of it seems to be because cars are apparently bought at auction to send overseas.

    If you go to the big Manheim high line auction, you'll see a lot of people who apparently export out of the country. Someone at Manheim told me those guys were making 50-100% margin on those cars, being sent to eastern Europe, etc. So they didn't care what they bid the cars up to.

    Whatever it is, what high line cars get bid up to at Manheim is sometimes truly amazing.

    But, that being said, the crazy bidders can't be everywhere at once, and someone with a dealer's license is still going to have better luck - overall and in general - trying the auction then scanning the papers or Internet to pick something up on the retail market. The auctions are all about timing - if there just doesn't happen to be anyone else interested in the particular car you want when it comes across the block, you can get a great deal on it.
     

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