812 Replacement Rumors

I think that is what day 355 is saying but no one appears to be listening!!

 

Don’t get me started on Cosworth engines…. If their previous road cars are anything to go by, there is no way Ferrari should be aping that. Don’t get me wrong, they are wonderful race engineers, but roadcars are totally different. I have experience of this from the other side of the sales desk. If they go the Cosworth-style route (11k rpm etc.) it will be for limited Icona-type cars only, and even then probably not. Cylinder deactivation, stop-start, gpf, catalysts, none of it is desirable for the petrolhead. But as has been the case for over 20 years (and there are a lot of great Ferrari V12s in that time period) these are innovations designed to reduce fuel usage and the directly-linked and all-important emissions. I love great sounding cars and will have all three 812s in our garage next year sometime. So far, the GTS is actually my preferred car - by a way. It is such a brilliant Ferrari, just something about it. It’s a bit quieter than our SF but it just sounds better, more cultured, more evocative. Some seem to like volume at the cost of virtually everything else. Our Speciale is loud, but it isn’t especially great sounding, if the GTS was a 10 the Speciale is no more than a 7. Our CS was very loud, but that was still a pretty uncultured sound (intoxicating though). The GTS is magnificent. And it has stop-start, gpf, catalysts. These are obstacles to be got around and Ferrari are brilliant at getting around them. As the task gets harder so the engineering brilliance increases. We have a 512M which sounds amazing. But it is a much simpler engine. The sound of the GTS is on a par with that for me, from the inside it is even a little better. Outside and behind the 512M is sonic bliss. But that doesn’t do me much good - those who don’t own or drive our car hear it better than we do! Replacement 812 engine is better big and powerful. If it needs deactivation or whatever to exist then ok, let’s see how they do it. No point complaining about what we can’t change unless we decide to stick to the back catalogue. I’ll at least consider the actual product, rather than what it sounds like on paper, before deciding. Older cars have a different personality but the newer ones offer something too.

 

A lot goes into an engines ability to rpm. A lot has happened with valvetrain technology, and DOHC systems with hydraulic followers have been able to rev to 10+k for a long time. Piston speed is a non-issue as it will be managable in a small displacement V12. As I've pointed out before, some engines like the 4 litre six boxers from Porsche has a much higher bob weight than the V12. Not sure that I get why 9400 is such a big deal with the 812. I know Ferrari want us to think about it as mind blowingly impressive, but when we consider the fact that a Speciale has,a rev limiter at 9100 and has both bigger slugs and a longer stroke, never mind the 4 litre Porsche spinning to 9200, then I completely fail to see what is so impressive. Not only does the V12 have a shorter stroke with less bob weight, it is better balanced than both.

I think it's a great engine in a car I very much look forward to get to know, but the peak rpm is not what has me impressed, and for this reason I hope that the future V12 will be a 10+k rpm engine, as that in my humble opinion should be more than possible.

We'll see - hope for the best

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In typical road cars no, but in a daily SUV it will be. Imagine filling up your car at or before every 200miles.

 

812 Superfast Redline is supposed to be 8900, but we all know it's actual redline is 8400. 9500rpm redline should mean 9000 IRL

 

It matters. So does it in a Lusso. With GT cars and daily drivers, constant filling them up can be a real pain.

When people tell me it does not matter, most often the case is that they haven't tried it.

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Not sure how you get to that conclusion. It makes peak power at 8500 and roll off after that. It would be way down on power at higher rpm.



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https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/what-maximum-rpm-does-your-gts-do.643710/

 

I'll let you know Monday. But what does that have to do with what I said? The 812 is out of puff at 8500, and the last bit to 8900 is just fluff. Taking it to 9500 rpm would just make it fall flat on its face.

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I hope the new car with development code F167 will look a lot better than the 812 Superfast. The 812 looks weird, especially from the front. The design is not
harmonious, it has no clear line. I hope they can build such a beautiful and elegant car like the F12 Berlinetta, which is a real beauty. Especially when you see it from the side.

 

Looks weird, not harmonious, no clear line? Are you looking at the same car as me?
(From 812SF pictures thread...)

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I like this country but not the car…

 

Let me explain it with my own sketch… Image Unavailable, Please Login
By the way: MANY cars are looking good in the evening light… especially in Switzerland.

 

You'll be happy, at this hour, 167 is more beautiful than an F 12.
Opposite direction of 812.

 

I see your point. Individual components do seem contrived, but for me the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Also, one thing I love about Ferrari design over Aston Martin is that the latter is almost “too perfect.” The lines on an AM are almost exactly where you think they should be classically and that makes me lose a little interest. Ferrari’s, and most Italian car designs, seem to have a slight unpredictable oddity that brings visual interest and excitement.
The Roma is classically beautiful, but a bit bland to me.

 

More like Roma?

 

In a way...but more sculpted
With more sporting presence.
No more questions please...

 

What happened to the mid-engined concept?

 

Probably the new Icona not the 812 successor, unfortunately


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Wow...sound really good

 

Ask the management unfortunately.

 

SF90 replacement with the new V12 ?

 

Good News! And even at the Ferrari Centro Stile they will know that the 812 was not their best design. They know that their work will be compared with the glorious past of the brand. If not at the present, then in a few years (when we look over a decade of the Centro Stile Design). Which design will be rememberd? And Flavio Manzoni wants to be remembered through his work. So: Hard times with hard work...

 

I see this point too, i call it “roughness“.

 

What a shame...
The thing is, with the front-mid-engined V12 it's nearly impossible to get it right. It wants to be a sportscar but if they are trying too hard people will complain it is too aggressive and arguing the front-mid V12 Ferrari should be all about elegance. I assumed they are trying to fix that by dividing it into two dedicated models which are less compromised.