812 Replacement Rumors

Where did you get the $500 a tank from? I haven't read pricing on it anywhere.

 

Actually quite a bit more than $500 per tank at current price
https://www.motortrend.com/features/porsche-supercup-efuel-direct-air-carbon-capture/
(10€/L)

of course, "who cares" because it will be unobtanium, tiny production numbers, currently it is just a research project

In just the USA about 1B gallons of gasoline are used per day, even "optimistic" annual production forecasts for 2027 are 145M gallons (and, if you look back in the history, that prediction was originally for 2025..it already slipped by 2 years)

So, it would take 12 months to produce less than 3.5 hours worth of e-fuel, it will not scale anytime soon. That's why Porsche is dedicating it mostly to racing.

And, the "initial" idea is simply "blend" e-fuel with regular gasoline, maybe 4% ratio, even then it would only "stretch" 3.5 hours to 3 days 19 hours, but blended, ridiculous.

 

Here's an idea. Stop copying the PF F12 and start come up with something on your own that's pleasing.

 

Anyone see the new Lambo? Hard to believe Ferrari will yield 200hp to them by not going with hybridization.

 

Shown at 1 PM eastern daylight saving time today.

 

No thanks to that, besides the sheer drivetrain complexity, that new car is more than 600 pounds heavier than the previous model, it is nearly as heavy as a Tesla Model S.

@of2worlds
It has already "been shown' even on Lamborghini's own youtube channel banner and multiple magazines have already released their youtube videos...I wonder what is left to "know" in 80 minutes?

 

Just a comment I read yesterday that the covers would come off then. Everyone wants to be first with new news. Lots of leaks in the past for new cars that take some of the shine off of a new car introduction. Before the internet everything was a lot more simple...

 

In this case, it was all intentionally leaked by Lamborghini itself..so, not what you were thinking...

 

When I was contemplating a purchase a couple months ago- I was deciding between 812 and F8.... I like the F8 better but asked my Ferrari dealer his opinion based on which or both would be the last of their kind without hybridization..... he said get the F8 100%. I said, well, won't the 812 be the last non hybrid V12 also? And he replied, "absolutely not, Ferrari has already told us there will be more non hybrid V12's but the F8 is definitely the last mid engine V8 non hybrid."

 

The Purosangue is non-hybrid V12, it will be in production for many many years to come and based on its apparent popularity, it will serve to "crowd out" the ability for Ferrari to build significant numbers of any other V12 (as the V12 production is manual, not automated and the most ever made in one year was just over 2700), so, the F167, from all we know will not be hybrid (from test mules lacking high voltage warning stickers to word from various insiders here and otherwise), but, I believe its production will be glacial, maybe 500 per year (worldwide). Not only that, but just look at the new Aventador (renamed Reveulto, but is just a hybrid Aventador), look at all the electric nannies, lake keeping, automated braking and more, that will be unattractive to some on the F167 but it will be part of as well as a full digital interior (an interior everyone complains about).

 

Since the SF90 Stradale is Ferrari's flagship and thus the Revuelto's competitor (both in terms of power/speed, as well as layout), the front-mid engine Ferrari V12 doesn't have to compete with the top Lambo anymore.

I find this remark unfair. New engine, new chassis, new gearbox, new hybrid tech. Basically, the only things it shares with the Aventador are the overall shape (which all big Lambos have since the Countach) and the brand name. Also, I haven't found any reference to overall weight. Where did you see that 600 lbs increase?


Personally, I am impressed by the Revuelto; N/A V12 and 1000 HP! Remains to be seen how it drives.

 

All things aside, Lambo just got their new interior right with PHYSICAL buttons.

 

Its 1772 kg dry, its 200 kg heavier than sf90.

 

Not saying I love everything Lamborghini has done here, nor that Ferrari couldn’t engineer an better product following the same recipe. With that said, bravo Lamborghini! You stayed true to your roots and made the car none of the other exotic manufacturers have the balls to make today and for I am assuming the next decade. We can only hope Ferrari takes note and decides it is worth their while to develop an all new V12.

 

But, Ferrari did that with the 812c...so, Ferrari was years ahead on that.

as for having a proper rear-mid-engine V12 model in the standard range, well, could not agree more!

 

@ferrarifanatic25

Further that the Revuelto engine is not "all new" but simply updated internals and refinements (just like the 812c with Ferrari being much more verbose regarding its changes)....

From:
https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/models/revuelto

ENGINE
The Revuelto entirely rewrites the Lamborghini technical paradigm, starting with the iconic V12 engine that finds in the first Lamborghini hybrid a chance for evolution; for starters, it has been rotated by 180° and optimized to harmoniously co-exist with three e-motors (two on the front e-Axle and one behind the engine itself). The one underwent by the V12 engine is a full-on revolution: a new, higher efficient combustion system, a new exhaust system that reduces backpressure at high revs, a new intake system with improved torque and power, a new oil and water system, an improved valve train with new HLA radius tappet for high speed, and, finally, a weight reduction of -33.5 kg. The new V12 engine can produce a whopping 825 PS in combination with the electric engines for a maximum speed of over 350 km/h.

From a Hagerty interview, I thought this of interest:
Rouven Mohr, head of Lamborghini’s research and development team says:
"There’s no combustion-only mode, but the system’s basic layout is absolutely combustion-dominated."

In comparison to what Ferrari did:

From:
https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/corporate/articles/812-competizione-and-812-competizione-a-two-interpretations-of-ferraris-racing-soul

Maximum revs are now 9,500 rpm which, together with a rising crescendo of torque delivery, unleashes a feeling of progressive and boundless power and acceleration. A result delivered by the meticulous redesign of key engine components such as the con-rods, pistons, crankshaft and distribution. The titanium con-rods are 40% lighter than steel versions whilst delivering the same mechanical resistance; the piston pins, on the other hand, have been given a diamond-like carbon (DLC) coating to reduce the coefficient of friction to the benefit of performance, fuel consumption and wear. These modifications are combined with a rebalanced crankshaft, which is also 3 percent lighter than the previous version.

The most significant improvements, however, are to the distribution and the cylinder heads, which have both been completely redesigned. The cams (which now feature DLC coating) now action the valve stems via DLC-coated steel sliding finger followers, which are derived from Ferrari’s F1 experience and were developed specifically for this engine to provide a higher lift profile.

To ensure that the engine breathes correctly across the entire rev range, the intake system was redesigned: both manifold and plenum are now more compact to reduce the overall length of the tracts, thus delivering more power at high revs, while the torque curve is optimised at all engine speeds by a system of variable geometry inlet tracts. This enables the length of the intake tract assembly to be continuously modified, adapting it to the firing order to maximise the dynamic charge in the cylinder. The result is an engine that revs with tremendous speed all the way to the cut off with no drop off towards the red line.

To reduce friction and mechanical losses, thereby improving the engine’s overall efficiency, the engineers developed a new variable-displacement oil pump that continuously adjusts oil pressure across the engine’s entire operating range. Another important point to underscore is the adoption of a less viscous oil (Shell Helix 5W40) than used on previous V12s and the improvement in the flow rate throughout the entire oil scavenge line.

The direct fuel injection management strategy has been further developed to keep abreast with increasingly stringent emissions regulations. The calibration of the timing and amount of fuel injected, as well as an increase in injection pressure, have reduced emissions and the generation of particulate, especially when the engine is cold.

The ignition system is constantly monitored by the ECU which has an ion-sensing system that measures ionising currents to control ignition timing: it has a single and a multi-spark function to the benefit of smooth, flexible torque delivery. The ECU also controls combustion in the chamber to ensure that the engine is always working at peak thermodynamic efficiency, something also achieved in part by a sophisticated strategy that recognises the octane rating of the fuel being used.

To maintain the traditional incredibly high standard of engine sound to which Ferrari V12 owners are accustomed, whilst simultaneously introducing a GPF (Gasoline Particulate Filter) to the exhaust system that ensures compliance with the very latest emissions regulations, the engineers added a new exhaust tailpipe. This unusual and innovative design solution reinstates the medium-high frequency sound muffled by the use of the GPF.

 

You should rather say how he brakes, because that's when you realize that you are transporting the pod from a house behind the seat...
Totally useless car apart from straight line accelerations for those who do not know how to negotiate a turn

 

I am willing to bet that it will brake brilliantly and will be much quicker than it's predecessor around a circuit.

 

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It's got kind of a Murcielago meets Sian vibe.

 

The design is not great.

 

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