@1881 Ferrari made a huge error and 812SF US orders & sales went to the floor after the SF90 reveal and the 'crowning' of the SF90 as the new flagship, that is well documented and was a colossal marketing blunder by Ferrari. So, no, they will not be successful if they continue to do that. The comment "sell each unit" is always true since every car made is a customer order, so if there is 1 sale or 10,000 sales, Ferrari will always sell each unit made...so, that comment is not all that meaningful. It is only meaningful in terms of limited editions where a preset number will be produced, that would be very embarrassing if Ferrari did not "sell out" a limited edition, so, in that context, that statement is more appropriate. The F167 will not be the flagship, Ferrari has made it abundantly clear the flagship will be hybrid V8+turbo and later hybrid V6+turbo and later still, all electric, boo!
For the foreseeable future they say that hybrids and pure ICE will remain in the mix. With the advent of e-fuels we might never see a full electric Ferrari line-up.
There are no more at Ferrari today ! Everything is a flagship for them... in theory, it is the one that symbolizes the brand, and through the 812 and its two other derivatives, it is the flagship product (including in volume)
Their ability to reach 60 is completely equal, I leave this exercise to the race car in my opinion, it is the distilled emotion that is important, and in this case nothing in the world replaces an NA
Actually the flagship is the most powerful ship of the fleet, the one having the overall command and where the Commodore or the Admiral is based at. Ferrari's current flagship, the best performing car, is the SF90 Stradale. I agree that the 812 has the more special engine, alas it is not the flagship neither in terms of performance, nor of price.
That would easily be fixed with a V12 hybrid to bring the F167 up to SF90 performance levels. Alas Ferrari sees the V12 as a “legacy” product, for the old farts like me who still make up a sizable portion of the Ferrari purchases. As we die out (or end up in nursing homes!) the V12 will die with us. It’s a matter of dollars and cents- as long as the V12 sells in volume- they will make it, but they are not going to put a ton of money into developing a new V12 as long as they can keep the current one relevant with some tweaks for the V12 aficionados. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Based on this assumption, in 2018 would an E63 S AMG be more flagship than the S65 L AMG? The 575M had less performance than a CS, but it was the flagship. The 599 GTB coexisted in line for 3 years with the more modern and faster 458 Italia, but it was still the flagship at the time. Ferrari V12s have always been flagships. Putting 3 batteries to work together with the F154 is not going to change that. Performance today is something cheap. It can no longer be used as a blind reason to define flagship. V12s have always been very exclusive and refined engines. Today, a V12 is even more unique in the automotive industry, and that logically is a factor in the equation of which Ferrari is the lineup's big brother. About the price, the SF90 today is more expensive, just because Ferrari had to charge customers for the electronic paraphernalia that it inserted in the SF90 project, and the 812 derives from an older project, from 2012 (F12B). However, I think the F167 will reposition the price hierarchy. It will be priced higher than the 812 and the SF90.
We know that's not happening though. Even better, a rear-mid engined N/A V12, instead of a front-mid engined one. I still hope that the V12 will live on for a long time to come and that the new halo car will have a V12, but the latter is more of a wishful thought rather than a realistic scenario. I would say that the AMG GT was the flagship. Not really. In a straight line the V12s were still quicker. Round the corners, the lighter mid-engined ones had an advantage. More to the point, the V12s were more expensive, unlike what is the reality today. I very much doubt that the new V12 will be more expensive than the Stradale. Especially now with the new version of that car coming. At the end of the day, if a car is both better performing and more expensive, it is the flagship.
https://www.ferrari.com/en-MG/magazine/articles/60-years-of-mid-engine-masterpieces-bloodline?amp=true Sixty years ago, Ferrari revealed its first mid-engine sports car. The 246 SP was a racing success and inspired a series of brilliant mid-engined road cars, from the Dino 206 GT to today’s SF90 Stradale, Ferrari’s flagship ... Even more significant was the 308 GTB launched in 1975, successor to the iconic Dino 246 GT. It began an uninterrupted bloodline of V8-powered mid-engined sports cars that continues today with the F8 Tributo and the SF90 Stradale, flagship of the Ferrari range. . . . SF90 Starting at $516,295, 812SF base price was ~: $363,730 I do not think Ferrari will raise the F167 base price higher than $450,000, probably more like $410,000, certainly not more than the SF90 base price, that seems an impossible leap
I too think the f167 will start in the low 400s before options.We will see how it plays out. My thinking is is that the 812sf will settle in mid to high 300s depending on spec. F12 will be low 300s. May be higher for a high spec given last P design. Similar to how the 458 v 488 market had been. Lets see would love to come back a year from now and see how it all played out.
So if Ferrari itself says it, unfortunately I can't objectively disagree. But subjectively, I don't see it that way, I think Ferrari artificially positioned the SF90 as a flagship to sell the product with that appeal, but that's my opinion. I cannot see a V8 F154 biturbo with electric motors hierarchically above the mythical F140 V12. But, just my opinion. Thanks for the clarification, JTSE30.
We need to get back to the topic of F167. Do you bet on GTO Series I, GTO Series II, or another model as inspiration?
Purosangue is 400k base price, the f167 would be much more expensive, my opinion around 600k base price.
Thank you. Truly, only Ferrari can declare what is its flagship car. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I still can't wait for this slow agony of Ferrari to end, because these heavy hybrid gts filled with useless hp and cheap materials, with all the arrogance of the brand become for me indigestible. I loved and built my passion on the emotion aroused by the original Ferrari DNA, sports car manufacturer, for 30 years. I am totally indifferent to the Ferrari by RACE luxury product. The SF 90, 296, PS become highly indigestible. Can't wait for 167 to arrive and for me to be able to turn the page. Of the original brand, only a badge remains.
Regarding the potentially controversial roof design of the F167, is that because there will be no rear window as on 812 Competizione or because rear window will be vertically truncated as on 250 GTO Series 2 ?
