I might know something, but that is irrelevant , the relevant thing is that this is one off project BR20, and has nothing to do with project 167.
I must say a variation on the BR20 would be most inviting. Does the BR20 come with a dual glass canopy? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Ok Wiki, so... with this description of "mule", you're describing the "Roma-V12" stage of the process, not the current one with the final bodywork. In fact, the "Roma-V12" stage was a "mule" vehicle with Roma bodywork equipped with prototype components (for example, the V12, the windscreen of F-167) requiring evaluation, end they were also camouflaged. I would also like to add that etymologically, the word "prototype" does mean "the first of its kind, or type" I'm just trying to bring some light to the topic. You all can also read this, directly from the Ferrari website: https://www.ferrari.com/it-IT/magazine/articles/mules-to-prototypes-how-ferrari-s-dreams-become-real
Seems to me that sometime perhaps in the near future an AI model will be able to quickly and accurately strip the camo off these units and reveal a +95% solution from the many logical permutations possible and knowing some facts about the design team and influences. For that matter they likely could produce a better fresh design as well.
^ Speaking of which, I just had an AI make me a Verde Jewel 288 GTO Spyder (a 288 GTS?). Screw the next V12. Sign me up for this! Image Unavailable, Please Login
In the picture below is an image of the black F167 mule that appears in the latest Varryx video that was posted here yesterday. Most likely it has to do with some nostalgia but in my eyes the front of this black mule reminds me a lot of the lines of the 365 GTB. I think someone has previously mentioned this apparent similarity between the front of one of the mules and the front of the Daytona. More than 50 years ago the Daytona marked a new era and according to the specialists “truly was a breath of fresh air in terms of design. The shape of the car became more aggressive and sharp. The bonnet of the car became longer and wider with the nose sweep looking like a shark. The body of the Daytona featured an almost circular indent line that reached from each of the front wheel arches and around the back. The design of the Ferrari Daytona set the guidelines for future Ferraris which makes it even more influential today” This is probably all a fantasy because, as is almost always the case, what the mule's black canvas hides ends up surprising us by never being what we thought. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Remember when the 812 was yet to be released and they were talking about how IT was influenced by the Daytona. Time will tell what this ‘influence’ is.
Maybe it’s just me but bringing classic designs into the modern age kind of feels like the rehash of all the super hero movies. It’s good but somehow you always look back and say the old version was better. My preference is a clean sheet car with all new elements or reinterpret the car with classic elements from nose to tail otherwise it becomes a Frankenstein design. The 296 as an example is an amazing car from a driving standpoint and has a beautiful back half but the front is absolutely boring and ugly in my opinion.
agreed, I'm not a big fan of the front fascia of the 296. I remember someone previously mentioning in this chat the F167 is quite cohesive from front to rear...
I'm not a fan of the 296 visually at all, from any angle tbh. Daytona is nice but I'm hoping 167 is very new...
I discovered a new, undisguised element on one of the F167 prototypes (marked with the light blue rectangle). Its shape (marked with the number 1) reminds me a bit of the diffuser of the 360 Modena. There is also a kind of middle strut (marked with the number 2) that could work like a small wing. Maybe something like the front of the 296 GTS (also marked with the number 2). @ingegnere (and to the other experts): What kind of element could that be? It also influences the new look of the F167. Source: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ferrari-spied-testing-old-and-new-prototypes-of-the-812-superfast-replacing-f167-228785.html#agal_38
Even as an owner I'm not a big fan of the front as well. But c'mon, how can anyone dislike this side profile? Image Unavailable, Please Login
As I’ve said before the Manzoni era designs aren’t bad but there always seems to be something odd about each one(of course some on this site would state all designs have that) but Manzoni’s seem to look great but there is always one view from one angle, front, side, rear, 3/4 etc which is way off putting Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
looks really good in white, the side profile of the 296's roof is arguably better than sf90 and LF just because the roofline looks more cohesive compared to the other two
Sorry but to me it just looks incongruent compared to for example the F8's side profile. When I look at the two side by side (not mine, a random one from the internet) I feel like the F8 flows better. The cockpit in the 296 feels like its recessed into the car too much and is a separate "thing" from the car, the F8's feels like a smoother overall design with the cabin being part of the car rather than something that was shoved inside it. Forgive my butchering of your car but I've tried to highlight what I mean below. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I've always thought they completely ruined the side view of the 458 by adding that intake on the side of the 488 / F8 which precisely broke the flow making that strange curve... Image Unavailable, Please Login
After reading the last posts about the design of the 458, 488, F8 and 296 the issue of Flavio Manzoni designs vs Pininfarina designs is inevitable and it is always very controversial. I know from previous times when this discussion was raised that opinions sometimes become inflamed. It is not my intention to create any controversy because, invariably, a majority of owners believe that their last Ferrari design is the best. I hope not to bother you by leaving here the long reasoned opinion of a prestigious Italian automotive journalist and great Ferrari connoisseur, Rosario Scelsi, about the designs of his compatriots Flavio Manzoni (Ferrari design center) and the Pininfarina house. “Designing Ferraris is difficult, but Manzoni is up to the task, even if the comparison with Pininfarina causes anxiety". Flavio Manzoni's design also causes a lot of discussion on the web, where users often compare his Ferraris with those created in the name of Pininfarina. This last signature, due to the historical link with the Maranello company, represents an essential reference in the analysis of the style of the "prancing horse" brand. To try to make the comparison more homogeneous, let's start from 1975, the year of the debut of the Ferrari 308 GTB. A work of art worthy of the best tradition, followed by a long trail of other stylistic masterpieces. I am thinking of the various BB 512, GTO, Testarossa, F40, 348, 456, F355, F50, 550 Maranello, 360 Modena, Enzo, F430, 599 GTB, 458 Italia, F12 berlinetta, just to mention the cars that in my opinion are the most successful of that historical phase. These are models of great charm and personality, easily distinguishable from all the others. In their volumes the notes of elegance, fluidity, harmony, originality, character, determination, compositional perfection and recognizability are best condensed. Pininfarina's class makes the difference, and it can all be seen in the models mentioned above. Only Flavio Manzoni's Ferrari Monza SP1 and SP2 express themselves with the same formal balance, but for the others the comparison is a little harder to bear. Of course, the 488 and the F8 are notable, but the side was weighed down compared to the 458 by an air intake that perhaps could have been interpreted better. The 812 also represents a stylistic step backwards compared to the F12berlinetta, resulting in it being too full of elements that disturb the smoothness and cleanliness of the features. The stage presence is strong, but the beauty is less pure than that of its predecessor, to whose aesthetic definition Flavio Manzoni contributed. The impression is that the Sardinian designer has impulses of great genius, but that he is unable to always match them perfectly, as Pininfarina did. In the cars designed by him, the details are impeccable, but the overall view is sometimes disturbed by something, by a discordant note. If with Pininfarina there were no doubts about the fact that the next "red" would immediately enter the heart for its style, with Manzoni there is great anxiety every time and nothing can be taken for granted. There is no shortage of exceptions: the 458 Speciale is very successful, like the California T and the Portofino, which do better than Pininfarina's California, from which they take their inspiration. The LaFerrari also competes on equal terms with the Enzo. The Roma is a proof of great formal cleanliness, worthy of the great historical tradition of the brand, but there is that porous grille in the same color as the bodywork which is difficult to digest. The front light clusters also leave room for some doubts. The SF90 Stradale has a strong visual impact, but if the side profile is top notch, the same cannot be said of the front and especially of the rear mirror. This improves significantly on the SF90 Spider, which modifies the rear window area, making it much more linear and streamlined. One of the few cases in which a discovery, even when closed, does better than a coupé. The 296 GTB also opens the field to many discussions, with volumes of extraordinary beauty combined with others that are much less convincing. I leave aside the judgment on the two-tone color of the Assetto Fiorano version, which borders on terrible taste. Obviously this is a personal opinion, like all the others expressed before, which arise from my personal conception of beauty, perhaps light years away from yours. Having reached this point, it is time for conclusions. For me Pininfarina is unattainable, but I grew up with the myth of the Testarossas and F40s and this, perhaps, influences my judgement. Flavio Manzoni, for his part, is great and has visions that go beyond the common standard. He is certainly a champion, who takes meticulous care of even the smallest details, but in putting together the individual excellences of his proposals he sometimes loses the overall vision and this can be seen in the frequent presence of something that breaks the dialectical fluidity and coherence of the lexicon. Maybe it's something refined and desired, but I prefer a less troubled stylistic cut. It must be said that the performance evolution of modern Ferraris has made the specific weight of the aerodynamic and functional aspects increasingly higher, with repercussions on the purity and harmony of the style. Manzoni has to deal with these aspects more than Pininfarina. Then there are also the tastes of emerging markets, but it is a motivation that I do not find strong, because art must not bend to fashions and markets but must set trends and educate markets in the cult of beauty. In any case, Flavio Manzoni's Ferraris are also spectacular."
From this post: … and per @isot that the Roma is showing the F167’s diffuser, your post shows that the area circled below (covered here) is in fact open so maybe either just a styling feature or some effort to add a lower flap/guide vane to the diffuser: Image Unavailable, Please Login
I wonder if the design "gimmick" of an always blacked out 'A' pillar will be used. For instance, on the 296, are you even allowed to have a body colored 'A' pillar?
