812 Replacement Rumors

You know what I was thinking. Maybe the reason Ferrari didn't make this car a hybrid because with a V12 and the extra power and torque from the motor. It could eclipse the new Laferrari replacement. Especially if it has a V6TT.

 

Doubtful, the V12 engineering team was disbanded right after the SP3 reveal (December 2021). The "V12" uses the engine from the 812C which was literally revealed 3 years before the new "V12"; All the insights were this car was "thisclose" to being cancelled. Remember, the "V12" was revealed MORE THAN 7 years after the 812 reveal, this car was seriously late...because it was not a priority.

To me it is obvious the V12 platform is not a priority for Ferrari. They spent "zero" working on the engine of the "V12", some expense for the exhaust updates for EU compliance. And mating it to an 8-speed transmission. To develop a hybrid platform would of been very expensive and time consuming and would of delayed this car for at least another 2 years. The V12 has not been the Ferrari Flagship for nearly 5 years, and never will be again, at this point it is "out to pasture", under John Elkann's leadership it will never have more money spent on development (of a new V12 engine).

Currently the V8+Turbos+Hybrid is the flagship, and that seems to be in jeopardy, chances are Ferrari will consolidate around an "all V6" platform for everything outside EVs and Icona's in the next 2 years.

 

So in other words....the Ferrari we know...is gone?

 

unfortunately reality is different. V6TT already reached the level of power of and old v12, and because it's smaller and lighter it is better for hybrid platform that Ferrari has. Hence the choice.
140 how ever glorious engine it is, has reached it's maximum years ago.
Unless something radical changes that's it.

 

Makes sense. Though personally, I'd love to see an Icona for the "masses" line run in parallel to the more cutting edge (and/or regulation-imposed) technology.

I bet both lines would sell very well. Ferrari's identity is different to different Ferrarista. For some, it's being at the leading edge, pushing technological barriers. For others, the V12 is intrinsic to the brand's identity, even if it's no longer the "best" solution from a numbers standpoint. The same reason people like mechanical watches.

So they can build horses for courses (pun intended) in a way that doesn't dilute the brand and could be commercially viable (as long as regulations permit it, and those seem to be moving back in the right direction).

 

Apologies, but, yes.

EU regulations were the main if not only influence in this result (and China setting a barrier at engine sizes 4L + where larger taxes start, did you ever notice how many exotics using 4L (or just a shade under) as the common size, that's why, they all wanted an easy path into the China market. )

The first to fall was the '488' being 3.9L twin turbo (rather than being a 4.8L V8 that its name would suggest) and that series "quickly" terminated with the F8. EU regulations being the culprit. GPF, same, EU, etc, etc. The unelected have their plan, and it is you do not have any personal, motorized transport at all. That's their goal and they are still pushing hard for it.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/walking-cycling-and-public-transport

Think EVs are immune? Not at all:

https://www.sae.org/news/2023/05/brakes-sustainability-dust-regulations

https://www.circularise.com/blogs/eu-battery-passport-regulation-requirements

the madness has no end other than you becoming a ward of the state, if you survive

it is madness, and so much more, but, no politics here

 

No, the Ferrari we know is in our garage.



We should be more happy and satisfied what we have.


Daniel

 

People seem to be worried about those aero flaps activating unnecessarily. If I understand correctly, you would need to be producing > 0.5 g while cornering or braking to activate them.

 

Not madness.
Criminal.

Marcel Massini

 

Do you happen to have the 812 file for this on hand?

 

During the 12 years, F140 engine has been enlarged but maximum torque has still reduced. The specific torque has reduced by over 5 %.

• F12berlinetta (2012): 6262 cc, 690 Nm @ 6000 rpm (110,2 Nm/l)
• 12Cilindri (2024): 6496 cc, 678 Nm @ 7250 rpm (104,4 Nm/l)

A bit surprising considering what Lambo is able to produce:

• Revuelto (2023): 6498 cc, 725 Nm @ 6,750 rpm (111,6 Nm/l)

I assume most of the blame goes for direct injection which nowadays mandates the use of GPF. It is kind of sad that Ferrari's direct injection engine is more advanced but it gets hurt by emission standards and requires complex GPF. The ceramic GPF that Ferrari mentions, apparently refers to cGPF (catalyzed GPF).

 

An afterthought.

And it shows.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

It is a shame the V12 is becoming a vintage product and the cars(which are thrown in for free)with it. The 458 was the last nonV12 Ferrari I enjoyed- the subsequent cars lost the beautiful noise and a bit of the Ferrari magic with it. I have since reveled in the V12s siren song with car performance on a par with its then contemporaries, but the company formerly known as Ferrari, now has decided to sunset the V12 into an early grave by no longer upping its capabilities with a new one. They could have saved face by making the cars lighter and thus faster without any assistance from electrons or compressors(I understand the T33 is US legal at 617 hp and a super light 1100kgs and it’s looks are very reminiscent of 1960s supercars-the term didn’t exist back then- but they compete in a different price sphere)
Ferrari balked at the expense of a new engine, so we get leftovers ( I like leftovers but not at nearly $500K out the door- if they lowered the price point a few quid it would be a reasonable trade-off)


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Yet some how Bugatti Can build a brand new V16 8L. just because it has a hybrid system added can't be the reason its going to be road legal. something doesn't add up.

 

Here it is:

 

So some sort of giallo seems to be a popular color choice for the 12c, especially with how much of the car is black. What do y'all think of it in giallo montecarlo? I thought that color was only limited to the sf90 spider.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6j_g7XoJMw/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

Thank you very much David!

 

Yes agreed, I had originally set my sights on Rosso Oslo Opaco before the reveal but playing with the configurator, Giallo is the most appropriate colour although it only has Giallo Modena available that I saw. Will need to research different Giallo's!

 

Although it has light camouflage, these are some of the few pictures that exist of a 12 C driving on the street.


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Did Manzoni get vibes from this black bottom version of EV6?

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Love all of it except for the rims which appear to have been stolen from a 2017 CR-V.
::hoping for symmetry, at least::

 

That looks pretty good.

 

Many of us have problems with the new “design codes“, especially with the codes of the coupé.
Isot describes the new design to me as follows: “...It's amazing how dynamic it is from static. The car sits on its rear wheels with a very long hood. But when you go around it the cabin virtually moves and becomes centralized...“
I've tried to visualize what he means and he´s right! Look at the picture i've made for us: the green lines/arrows show what you see when you look at the car from the front three quarter (rising lines, long hood, car sits on the rear wheels). But when you go around the red arrows/lines dominate. The delta wing motive let the cabin virtually move forward and so it becomes more centralized.
But the delta wing also appears to have a horizontal effect. The lines go downwards and they also have a visual effect in the width (in the direction of the two aero flaps). The nolder also runs across the entire width. The result should be that the car appears wider. By the way: the delta wing reminds me a bit of the wing of the famous Concorde...
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