812 Replacement Rumors

Yes, understood by those (few) of us remaining who remember/appreciate Ferrari design aesthetic. Sad reality is, Manzoni is too arrogant to study, understand, and incorporate such into his "superior" designs. Worse, today's buyers enable his arrogance by continuing to buy them. If people stopped buying, the message would resonate loud and clear. But the increasing majority of "modern Ferrari buyers" don't understand/appreciate, especially from a historic perspective, and like Manzoni, don't care to. They buy simply because it's the latest/greatest from Maranello, and has those cool horsie badges on fenders that they can show off.

 

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Nonsensical gatekeeping.

 

It certainly helps.
The considerable increase (15%) in torsional rigidity also makes a difference, as does the slightly shortened wheelbase.
What I find curious is that Raffaele De Simone says that "it is about 1-1.5'' slower than the 296, but a lot quicker than the 812, around Fiorano", but the official laptimes are 1.21.00" for the 296 GTB and 1.21.50" for the 812 Superfast at Fiorano.

 

Perhaps he meant "a lot quicker" than the 812 SF at the warm up lap.



Daniel

 

At least as good for 200k more…

 

This says it all really lol. It’s a significantly bigger car in all directions, slightly heavier with the same width tyres. Ferrari tried their very best to get the fastest time out of the 12C around Fiorano and if that time was quicker than the 812 then they would have published it.
Anyone who believes any different is both gullible and biased.

 

. . . said the modern Ferrari buyer.

 

One might question, is it realistic that 296 GTB is only 0.5 seconds faster than 812 Superfast?

296 GTB has total system torque of 900 Nm and much lower center of gravity.

 

The 296GTB will be faster than the 812SF around Fiorano by much more the 0.5 seconds.

 

I also found that weird, but I couldn't find the official 812 Superfast lap time.

 

Hear, hear!

 

I think you're being quite unfair.

I don't care for the 12C design either. It's needlessly divisive. I suspect that Manzoni knew that it would be, and he launched it anyway. I agree that this would require a degree of arrogance and perhaps insufficient reverence for his position.

But others genuinely like the design, and I'm happy for them. Taste is subjective. It's unreasonable to assume that anyone who likes the car must have superficial motivations, just as it's patronizing when others label those who dislike the design a philistine who will inevitably come to love it.

Perhaps I'm lucky, but the owners I know - including those eagerly anticipating the arrival of their 12C - are genuine car people who deeply appreciate Ferrari's history.

We may love our cars for different reasons, but the love always appears authentic to me.

 

Also keep in mind that ultimately it is Elkann who green-lights everything.

 

Since Flavio Manzoni joined Ferrari he has only been what they allowed him to be. When he reported to Luca di Montezemolo, Manzoni already denoted a fantasy personality as he spoke publicly about extra-terrestrials and science fiction, and it was known that one of his favorite hobbies was designing spaceships. However, it is more than obvious that Montezemolo never authorized Manzoni's space fantasy world to interfere in the design of Ferrari models.
After Montezemolo's departure in 2014 and with only Marchionne on the scene, Manzoni's space quirks continued but apparently were not reflected in the design of the new models. After Marchionne's death with Ferrari not having a strong and charismatic leadership the turning point was the SF 90 which IMO is a model whose design begins to resemble that of a spaceship. There is no doubt that in terms of design the new Ferraris have become just what Flavio Manzoni wants them to be. In this new context in which Ferrari is run by people who have little charisma and presumably lack in capacity of criticism, it is perfectly normal the aesthetic of the 12 C whose design is an author expressionist work.

 

Strange comments by the Ferrari team...the 12C has the exact same times for 0-60, 0-200 and top speed as the 812SF according to Ferrari. How is this "much" faster?

 

In Europe cars also brake and turn.

 

They meant lap times.

 

Flavio Manzoni must be feeling like Gustave Eiffel after crticism for his tower.

 

The Eiffel Tower, regardless of the great controversy that existed when it was built, ended up becoming a symbol of Paris and France. However, the most that Manzoni's 12 C can aspire to is to become a symbol of the Ferrari GT V12 class. But to do so, it will first have to dethrone the 250 GTO and several other great models designed by Pininfarina.

 

I don’t get this design bashing here, the customers will vote with their wallet and that’s it!
If it will be hard for them to sell it they will change their design language again.
Easy peasy!

 

The 12C is hardly a pig. It has cerain controversial design cues, namely the blacked out areas in the rear and between the headlights but its proportions are very pretty to my eyes.... heck even the blacked out areas under certain configurations look OK to me, the rear of the coupe in particular is growing on me.

 

I thought it was enough to beat 812SF, which it certainly does.

But perhaps I value too much how Ferrari fixed visual and mechanical issues of 812SF.

 

Indeed, the official Ferrari website does not have this information. But Ferrari New York has posted about the lap times of the 812 SF and its predecessors in Fiorano:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiM0kPFlX9k/