812 Replacement Rumors

Thinking of 458 progression to F8, besides turbos, and smaller engine,"Tributo" (end of the line)...so, if Vigna had made the F167 plan, it would of featured turbos, lower rev limit and smaller engine? Of course the F167 could still be named some version of "Tributo" marking the end...that could still happen....

OR...maybe what was being communicated was Vigna wanted to make the 812 the "Tributo" V12 model, end it there, no more...that's probably what @day355 is thinking.

 

If you look at what the F8 is, a 812 "Tributo" could have been a 812 integrating some of the evolutions made for the 812 Competizione in a less exclusive and less "extreme" package (just like the F8 is the integration of some Pista features into the 488 - although it's pretending to be a new car, the F8 is a 488 at least as much as the Pista is).
So a 812 "Tributo" would not have been a new car (whatever new means), but rather an evolution.
A new car is typically a new shell (as long as cars don't have chassis anymore), an evolution keeps the same shell.

 

All indications are that the F167 will be the last series regular production NA V12 from Ferrari. Whether it gets a name indicating its ‘riding off into the sunset’ status is anyone’s guess at this point.

 

I personally find it a bit tiring to hear all the time that a model is the last NA V12. We heard it with the F12, then the tdf, there were articles all over the place stating the competizione will be the last one. Now we know it wont be the case. So many convictions that the 812 replacement would be either turbo or hybrid / assisted. Now again we’re leaning towards another “last NA V12”…

 

Not to mention that the 812 itself was also meant to be the last…

 

If Frank were to quote himself, Frank would talk in the third person. Frank’s just saying……..


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I thought F167 is a hybrid V12, is it now known to be unassisted?

Either way can’t wait to put an order in

 

Yeah I hear you. And I get you. This is a wolf that many boys have cried before.

But seriously, there are multiple strong indications that the F167 will LEGIT be the last NA V12, at least for regular series production:

1. Head of V12 Development … gone.
2. Ferrari Investor Day presentation referring to future V12 under “Iconic” label and flat arrow fading as it it goes right. As if it doesn’t have much of a future in the line up. Contrast that with hybrid V6 and hybrid V8 which show ‘up and to the right’ future trajectory.
3. The LaFerrari replacement is NOT even going to have a V12, what does that tell you?
4. D355 himself said THIS SERIES the F167 was nearly killed in the womb under new leadership and was only saved by the fact that it was too far down the development path to cancel. He also confirmed this really IS the Last Dance for the regular production V12.

If you are a fan of Ferrari V12s and like to spec your own vehicle, ignore this collection of intelligence early warning indicators at your peril. Just trying to be of service to the FC community here.

 

The 812 is an evolution of the F 12, the basic bodywork, chassis, interior is the same, and has been reworked.
167 is a new car !
For the interior also...unfortunately

 

Does that mean therefore that the engine won’t be an evolution of the 6.5L V12? Otherwise it would be another evolution? If so i struggle to see how the engine could remain NA.

 

F 8 is just a rebodied Pista overall with software and softer springs...

 

Or are you simply referring to the chassis and interior design rather than to the engine when you describe the “evolution”

 

I did not mention the engine, I was talking about the other elements

 

Whether the F167 is the last NA V 12 is anyone’s guess. Ferrari will ride the “last of” gravy train as they can financially and regulatory. Ducati did it with the Panigale - the last of the v2 etc and Ducatisti ate them up until their new V4 proved to be a better bike( before anyone disagrees- I had several Panigales including the R versions and 1199 and 1299SLs- and the V4 SL is better in almost every way)
If it makes business sense Ferrari will continue to produce a NA V12 regular production car. Unfortunately I will continue to get the next great one until there isn’t any more and then decide if the next different one is good enough to part with my money


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so @day355 it sounds like what you're saying is ... an 812 comp engine with on a new chassis... hopefully the interior doesn't mirror haptic futuristic stuff?

 

Tell us how the F140 V12 in F12tdf is a big jump from f12b similar to the f12b V12 was over the 599.

 

Am I the only one who buys a Ferrari to enjoy it and doesn’t want the value to keep going up? I have a new GTS that I adore and want to keep forever. If it’s value goes over a million dollars that only gives me some angst driving it in traffic (especially since recently my 488 spider was totaled).
I don’t want “the last of...” because they are damn hard to replace!

 

What i said was that the jump between 599 and f12, 599gto to tdf were monumental and that the jump between the f12 to the tdf was also substantial though i never said it was similar to the above two. The idea was that imo the jump between the tdf to tom812c and 812 to 812c weren’t as material.

 

I misread your statement: "At the end of the day the biggest jump in that V12 development was from the 599 to the F12 and frankly the jump from f12 to tdf was also big." Looked like in the same sentence discussing V12 development of 599 to F12 that the jump from F12 to F12tdf was also big thus the reason for my query. From a V12 development standpoint the F140FG is not a big evolution over the F140FC. 38hp/11 lbs torque and 250 rpm. The performance improvement is felt much more from the 6% lower gearing and the tune. No substantial jump as there usually isn't in the LE versions.

 

I do agree with this…


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Same style as the PS

 

@Avia11
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Thank you, finally it "makes sense" why a "stretched" Roma is the testmule and not an 812...new "platform", due to new crash regulations it must be revised...

 

Like it or not Ferrari uses same or similar dashes across the brand in terms of screens, meters, computers chips and switches with only superficial fascia and vents to differentiate the regular lines. It saves them a ton of money which they hopefully put back into the engine and mechanicals.


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Not sure if @day355 has mentioned this before or if he feels comfortable confirming or denying it ... but the 'cleaning lady' in Maranello has whispered in my ear that the 812 successor V12 will have some sort of electrification, but somehow without a battery. I'm not sure what that means, how that would be possible, and 'she' would not elaborate further. But that's what I was told by what seems like a reliable source ... I don't know how accurate it is so take it for what it's worth.