812 SF - Post Test Drive Feedback

Ngcanada · Oct 25, 2023

Lukeylikey said: ↑

I agree with this. We have or have had many GT cars. They are brilliant, especially the manual 992 Touring we currently have - what a car! But it is very hard riding. The engine is a masterpiece and the front axle makes the car brilliant around the bends, the rear-engine traction enhancing that superbly. Really, it’s all the sports car you could need or want. In fact more than.

The 812 does a different thing, as does Ferrari in general. The Porsche powertrain is precise, metallic, insistent and relentless. The 812’s is organic, melodic, powerful and brings elation - just hits the spot, time and time again. The PDK is, let’s face it, a bit boring. On track it’s fantastic but the 812’s DCT adds incredible drama and makes the most of that sensational V12 whether on road or track. The PDK is a solid 8, efficient but the emotion comes from the motor not the gearbox. The 812’s transmission? 10 seems inadequate if your emotions are answering the question.

Not sure about the vibrations and lack of solidity mentioned. Seems like a fallacy to me. The Porsche powertrain gives that feeling of hewn from a single piece of metal but I can assure you it isn’t! The Ferrari doesn’t attempt to replicate that Germanic, teutonic feel. Instead it plays to its strengths - massive power, thrilling soundtrack (even better than the Porsche though it is close, so good is that flat 6), ability to put the power down despite it’s front engined format, intuitive and knife-edge handling that is still friendly enough to help you manage the power. Plus, it has Ferrari’s beautiful interior design and quality and in my opinion, looks fabulous and is able to do GT duties better than the Porsche, despite not really being a GT car. The ride is harder than other cars properly considered to be GTs such as a Bentley, but if you understand it isn’t really a GT, it starts to make a bit more sense. It is a full-blown supercar, that just happens to have a front engine instead of a mid-mounted one.

Still, the Ferrari feels solidly built and owning a Superfast, GTS and Competizione, I can tell you that solidity and quality is exceptionally good. These things are well made. Battery excepted!
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Finally someone who gets it...I couldn't put it into words like you did. Excellent depiction of why one wants to own an 812. And, why I do not see them dropping in value a whole lot as the OP wishes for.

nickorette · Oct 25, 2023

MaranelloAllTheWay said: ↑

I drove an 812 last week and wanted to post some feedback, both good and bad.

Good:

- The throttle response for an engine this size is quite impressive. It is not as responsive as a Porsche GT3, but I'd say 90% responsive that of a GT3 engine - which is a mighty accomplishment given the number of cylinders and large displacement.

- The steering ratio and RWS work very well in the car. It steers (careful use of word here) like a mid engine car. It is very nimble. Very easy to drive around town.

- Shifts are very quick.

- There is a lot of intake/drive train noise inside cabin, so much so that you actually don't hear much of exhaust at all.

- The cabin is very spacious and so is the cargo area.

Bad:

- The ride quality was pretty disappointing. It does not soak up bumps well at all. You get this jarring feeling of you are driving in a large car with long wheel base. Bumps road mode isn't that different at all.

- Overall the way car "drives" and goes over bumps, gives you the feeling that there is chassis flex and as if different parts/panels of the car are vibrating at different frequencies. Its hard to describe this, but basically it drives opposite to a 911 Turbo S or a Mclaren 720S in that those two cars feel like you are riding a singular piece of metal forged from one solid piece of aluminum block. With the 812, it drives too much like (I am sorry to say this) C7 corvette or a BMW M5. To me this was the biggest let down of the car.

- Before reading this next comment, please keep in mind I have never owned a ferrari. I am comparing it to a Porsche or a Mclaren for the following statement. The downshifts and particularly upshifts are purposelessly harsh. I don't understand if this is an Italian thing to provide some sort of a charisma to the car but upshifts on this car are unnecessarily harsh. They are harsh in Sport and in Race, they go from harsh to basically intolerable. Again, this may very well be a Ferrari thing. Porsche PDK-S in a GT3 is super smooth. Mclaren can be as smooth as GT3 but if you put the DT mode to Track, it can be harsh. But the good thing is, you can switch it off. In the case of Ferrari, its always harsh.

- It's a quiet car with stock exhaust. Car sounds glorious from outside, but from inside, its meh. I dont know why this is. Maybe the glasses are too thick?

- The cameras are quite hard to see from the small screen.

Overall, it wasn't what I was expecting. I have been trying to process this as I think part of the problem was lack of good sound. I think Novitec can help fix that. But the ride is probably is what it is. Because of the architecture of the 812 and the way Ferrari builds cars perhaps. I dont know if their mid engine cars drive the same way.
Click to expand...

I haven't driven the 812 SF, but I am an owner of an 812 GTS and have done a few laps with a GT3 on track before

-The throttle response increases with RPM, if going between 3-4k is a lot different from 7-8k. One of the things I love about the F140GA is the crescendo of horsepower and torque to the redline, it rewards and excites to bang through the gears

-I have no problems ripping down a bumpy backroad, it's able to soak up bumps while remaining completely composed at speed, I don't feel any chassis flex whatsoever. It is a long car with a long wheelbase, you are also sitting much further back from the front axle. In comparison to the cars mentioned with rear/mid engined weight bias and shorter wheelbase, the front end will feel sharper off center, more go-kart esc in comparison to the 812.

-The shifts are designed to give a bit of feedback when shifting, much more satisfying and rewarding. That being said the shifts increase in feedback depending on manitino, the smoothest shifts are in wet mode

-It is a very quiet car inside, has a lot of sound insulation, which is great for long drives. Much more characterful with Capristo exhaust remote and putting windows (or roof) down

-I think if going into this expecting the 812 to be like a 720S or a GT3 one would be disappointed. For more of that go-kart high-strung feeling from Ferrari you'll want to look to something like an 458/488/F8 (moreso the Speciale/Pista). Think of it as a hugely capable super GT. The engine is a masterpiece, one of the greats of our time, a NA V12 that revs to 9k is worth the admission alone. It is quiet, comfortable and easy to drive and great for effortless performance on the motorway and long distance cruising to your next destination or winding backroad. The RWS and additional tech/tuning allow the near-800hp to be controlled and exploited leading to high levels of driver confidence at speed.

Condor Man · Oct 25, 2023

Lukeylikey said: ↑

I agree with this. We have or have had many GT cars. They are brilliant, especially the manual 992 Touring we currently have - what a car! But it is very hard riding. The engine is a masterpiece and the front axle makes the car brilliant around the bends, the rear-engine traction enhancing that superbly. Really, it’s all the sports car you could need or want. In fact more than.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with this!

day355 · Oct 26, 2023

The 812 is an excellent car, but personally, there is a reason in terms of "content" that I would never replace my F 12, it's the electric steering of the 812... I don't like it at all, but really not at all...

ipsedixit · Oct 26, 2023

MaranelloAllTheWay said: ↑

I drove an 812 last week and wanted to post some feedback, both good and bad.

Good:

- The throttle response for an engine this size is quite impressive. It is not as responsive as a Porsche GT3, but I'd say 90% responsive that of a GT3 engine - which is a mighty accomplishment given the number of cylinders and large displacement.

- The steering ratio and RWS work very well in the car. It steers (careful use of word here) like a mid engine car. It is very nimble. Very easy to drive around town.

- Shifts are very quick.

- There is a lot of intake/drive train noise inside cabin, so much so that you actually don't hear much of exhaust at all.

- The cabin is very spacious and so is the cargo area.

Bad:

- The ride quality was pretty disappointing. It does not soak up bumps well at all. You get this jarring feeling of you are driving in a large car with long wheel base. Bumps road mode isn't that different at all.

- Overall the way car "drives" and goes over bumps, gives you the feeling that there is chassis flex and as if different parts/panels of the car are vibrating at different frequencies. Its hard to describe this, but basically it drives opposite to a 911 Turbo S or a Mclaren 720S in that those two cars feel like you are riding a singular piece of metal forged from one solid piece of aluminum block. With the 812, it drives too much like (I am sorry to say this) C7 corvette or a BMW M5. To me this was the biggest let down of the car.

- Before reading this next comment, please keep in mind I have never owned a ferrari. I am comparing it to a Porsche or a Mclaren for the following statement. The downshifts and particularly upshifts are purposelessly harsh. I don't understand if this is an Italian thing to provide some sort of a charisma to the car but upshifts on this car are unnecessarily harsh. They are harsh in Sport and in Race, they go from harsh to basically intolerable. Again, this may very well be a Ferrari thing. Porsche PDK-S in a GT3 is super smooth. Mclaren can be as smooth as GT3 but if you put the DT mode to Track, it can be harsh. But the good thing is, you can switch it off. In the case of Ferrari, its always harsh.

- It's a quiet car with stock exhaust. Car sounds glorious from outside, but from inside, its meh. I dont know why this is. Maybe the glasses are too thick?

- The cameras are quite hard to see from the small screen.

Overall, it wasn't what I was expecting. I have been trying to process this as I think part of the problem was lack of good sound. I think Novitec can help fix that. But the ride is probably is what it is. Because of the architecture of the 812 and the way Ferrari builds cars perhaps. I dont know if their mid engine cars drive the same way.
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This is honestly one of the most incongruous reviews of the 812 that I have read.

Ngcanada · Oct 26, 2023

ipsedixit said: ↑

This is honestly one of the most incongruous reviews of the 812 that I have read.
Click to expand...

Isnt it?? That is why I was trying to explain to him that the cars he needs to compare to are the F8/488/458....and he harps on the price of admission as a stumbling block compared to the 720S or Porsche. Maybe it is out of his price range and he is trying to convince or vindicate himself. Especially since he is praying for a huge price drop in his dialogue.

ipsedixit · Oct 26, 2023

Ngcanada said: ↑

That is why I was trying to explain to him that the cars he needs to compare to are the F8/488/458
Click to expand...

No, I don't think he has to compare it to other Ferraris to make his review apt.

His comparisons to other cars is what is like a stick in the eye.

The V12 in the 812 is as responsive, if not more, than in the 991 or 992 GT3, both cars which I have driven and/or owned.

The sound inside the 812 is not quiet, and certainly not more quiet than in a 720S (which I have driven on track) or a 991/992 GT3.

The 812 is more compliant than a 911 TT/TTS; to say otherwise would suggest you don't know what the word "compliant" means. The 812 is not as compliant as a 720S or any Mclaren, few cars are, in part because Mclaren has mastered their own trick suspension system.

I could go on, but this is the OP's opinion and he's entitled to it.

It's just very jarring to read. Not because I am a Ferrari fanboi, but because it goes against everything I know about these cars and everything I have others tell me about these cars (either friends or from reviewers).

One thing that I am in total agreement with the OP on is the backup screen and camera. Typical Ferrari UX.

Fastmd · Oct 26, 2023

It's very similar(if not the same person-3 pedals) to a poster on RL. I also didn't understand the comparison as I have owned/own the same cars and the 812 is superior on almost all aspects. But, it's his opinion.

MaranelloAllTheWay · Oct 26, 2023

ipsedixit said: ↑

No, I don't think he has to compare it to other Ferraris to make his review apt.

His comparisons to other cars is what is like a stick in the eye.

The V12 in the 812 is as responsive, if not more, than in the 991 or 992 GT3, both cars which I have driven and/or owned.

The sound inside the 812 is not quiet, and certainly not more quiet than in a 720S (which I have driven on track) or a 991/992 GT3.

The 812 is more compliant than a 911 TT/TTS; to say otherwise would suggest you don't know what the word "compliant" means. The 812 is not as compliant as a 720S or any Mclaren, few cars are, in part because Mclaren has mastered their own trick suspension system.

I could go on, but this is the OP's opinion and he's entitled to it.

It's just very jarring to read. Not because I am a Ferrari fanboi, but because it goes against everything I know about these cars and everything I have others tell me about these cars (either friends or from reviewers).

One thing that I am in total agreement with the OP on is the backup screen and camera. Typical Ferrari UX.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a22792556/2018-ferrari-812-superfast-by-the-numbers/

“the 812 emits 91 decibels to the Porsche's 100 and the McLaren's 95”

Clearly I am not alone in that observation.

Anyhow, I was able to drive a fellow enthusiast’s car yesterday. This was an older car (2018), had novitec exhaust with 200 cell cats, lighter forged wheels, different tires, different tire pressures, custom alignment and slightly lowered.

To say that my experience yesterday vs a week ago was so different is an understatement. It felt like a completely different car. Every single thing I didnt like from the first ride, this car was a substantial improvement. I also now realized my first drive was of a car with GPF, which I believe is even quieter than what C&D recorded - hence even lower than 91db vs 95/100.

I came away from this drive yesterday smiling ear to ear. I was laughing the entire drive.

The reason I even explored this avenue was people’s feedback on this thread which I am extremely appreciative of. I have gone from one extreme end of the spectrum to the other as far as how I feel about this car. I was ready to call it quits and now I am searching for the right car - but I am absolutely certain this is the right car for me.

And the other thing I realized is if I put the car in Auto mode, the shifts become much smoother. Also moving the dial to wet mode somehow softens things up even more.

I think the auroral feedback was a huge let down from the first drive but overall as someone here pointed out little things add up. Car yesterday was properly dialed and I cannot believe they were both the same car.

Lastly, I am thankful for the comments (and PMs for trying to help). Thanks to this group I might own one of these (soon). Now the search for the right spec begins.

Thank you

PTG1 · Oct 26, 2023

Lol

Solid State said: ↑

After reading your analysis, perhaps you are just not Maranello all the way!
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Sent from my SM-S9180 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

Condor Man · Oct 26, 2023

MaranelloAllTheWay said: ↑

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a22792556/2018-ferrari-812-superfast-by-the-numbers/

“the 812 emits 91 decibels to the Porsche's 100 and the McLaren's 95”

Clearly I am not alone in that observation.

Anyhow, I was able to drive a fellow enthusiast’s car yesterday. This was an older car (2018), had novitec exhaust with 200 cell cats, lighter forged wheels, different tires, different tire pressures, custom alignment and slightly lowered.

To say that my experience yesterday vs a week ago was so different is an understatement. It felt like a completely different car. Every single thing I didnt like from the first ride, this car was a substantial improvement. I also now realized my first drive was of a car with GPF, which I believe is even quieter than what C&D recorded - hence even lower than 91db vs 95/100.

I came away from this drive yesterday smiling ear to ear. I was laughing the entire drive.

The reason I even explored this avenue was people’s feedback on this thread which I am extremely appreciative of. I have gone from one extreme end of the spectrum to the other as far as how I feel about this car. I was ready to call it quits and now I am searching for the right car - but I am absolutely certain this is the right car for me.

And the other thing I realized is if I put the car in Auto mode, the shifts become much smoother. Also moving the dial to wet mode somehow softens things up even more.

I think the auroral feedback was a huge let down from the first drive but overall as someone here pointed out little things add up. Car yesterday was properly dialed and I cannot believe they were both the same car.

Lastly, I am thankful for the comments (and PMs for trying to help). Thanks to this group I might own one of these (soon). Now the search for the right spec begins.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Sound is everything.

Which would have been 80% of the experience.

What did you think of the 200 cell cats?

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

gliazzurri · Oct 27, 2023

I wonder how many really find the 812 transmission to be raw. Personally I think it is fairly smooth all things taken into account compared with other prior vehicles made. I don’t find myself getting thrown around when shifting at red line or WOT. The setup to me is powerful but not uncomfortable at all specifically about the transmission. As far as suspension maybe different and not cushioned at all times but transmission no not that. It does not compare to the aggressive single clutch feeling of the SVJ for example and is substantially smooth given what it is. The total experience of the car being loud and accelerating very freely may give some sense of aggression but I would not say from the way the car shifts.

bamaman · Oct 27, 2023

Can't the GPF be "opened" up, like say internals removed? I recall a video of removal of the internals of a Porsche GPF. The inside looked to be like drywall and completely impervious which had to kill any flow and sound. Maybe I am crazy.

Fastmd · Oct 27, 2023

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bamaman said: ↑

Can't the GPF be "opened" up, like say internals removed? I recall a video of removal of the internals of a Porsche GPF. The inside looked to be like drywall and completely impervious which had to kill any flow and sound. Maybe I am crazy.
Click to expand...

This is what gpf looks like. This is from my 23’ GT3. I took it out when replacing my exhaust with a custom inconel system.

However, in Porsche it’s not a monitored system in the US. With Ferrari, I’m pretty sure it’s monitored, so won’t be removing them from my 812 GTS.

My buddy is having a custom 812 inconel system from the same race shop in the UK and pretty sure it will sound better than the Novitec system. He is also replacing the cats. But, his car is a 2018 with no GPF.

MaranelloAllTheWay · Oct 27, 2023

Condor Man said: ↑

Sound is everything.

Which would have been 80% of the experience.

What did you think of the 200 cell cats?

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Click to expand...

I cant stress enough how much better the second car I drove was. The throttle response was also noticeably crisper. I dont know if the existence of GPF in the first drive was detrimental to throttle response OR the exhaust system in the second car improved it OR its both. The sound was also extremely crisp. Its loud at low RPM but very clean. There is literally zero drone/boomyness in cabin. I am very impressed with the exhaust. Obviously I cant know what part of the custom exhaust improved the sound/throttle response by how much as this would require you to try out every permutation separately but if past experience is of any indication, 200 cell cats usually improve sound and throttle response quite a bit in N/A engines.

REALZEUS · Oct 27, 2023

MaranelloAllTheWay said: ↑

The throttle response was also noticeably crisper. I dont know if the existence of GPF in the first drive was detrimental to throttle response OR the exhaust system in the second car improved it OR its both.
Click to expand...

Even the factory PPF car should be like that. That's why I believe that there was something wrong with the 1st car.

omercan · Oct 27, 2023

valves closed = LFA
valves open = v12 h2r
https://www.instagram.com/p/CyoIgz4qkqZ/
scuderiacarparts' 812gts I don't know what they did the sound is amazing the best sound I have seen after 355 tubi

Frank_C · Oct 27, 2023

I never drove my RS on the street. I only tracked it (6,000 mi of 6,670). It was just too brutal to drive on the road- tram lined like an epileptic. Also had a fr/rear muffler delete & Dundon Crack pipe, which didn’t help (needed to buy AirPods for the noise cancellation).

All Ferraris have excessive roll on track (just follow one) they are sports cars which you can track whereas the GTs are track cars, which you can street. The brakes & suspensions (and ride) clearly reflect that. One needs to lower & replace springs to nudge the 812 into track territory. Although the ride is stiffer, it doesn’t approach that titty-jiggler ride of the RS.

Once I stopped tracking I traded it on my Vanquish. A better accompaniment now- a 12 sports car for the weekend and a 12 GT for daily driving.

Now the Porsche launch control is the only thing I miss. Every one has been great from my wife’s previous Cayenne GTS & my old Panamera Turbo.

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

PTG1 · Nov 3, 2023

Which shop is doing it? I'm considering 200 cel cats for my sf as long as they do not make a warning show, I already have novi x pipe and back boxes, does anyone know the effect the 200 cels will have and if they will prompt a warning light

Fastmd said: ↑

View attachment 3598900

This is what gpf looks like. This is from my 23’ GT3. I took it out when replacing my exhaust with a custom inconel system.

However, in Porsche it’s not a monitored system in the US. With Ferrari, I’m pretty sure it’s monitored, so won’t be removing them from my 812 GTS.

My buddy is having a custom 812 inconel system from the same race shop in the UK and pretty sure it will sound better than the Novitec system. He is also replacing the cats. But, his car is a 2018 with no GPF.
Click to expand...

Sent from my SM-S9180 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

vonbeeler · Nov 3, 2023

Thecadster said: ↑

And ^^^^ is why it’s always important to test drive a car first. The 812 certainly isn’t for everyone, and in the normal course of things, many will experience the car differently. My personal experience (after owning mine for better than 3.5 years) is much different than yours. I find the chassis, suspension, overall drive/handling, steering, and glorious exhaust note to all be superb, and most crucially, quintessentially Ferrari.
Click to expand...

Same. After three years.

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

AMN · Nov 8, 2023

To the original poster... I am coming from various Porsches including the latest GT3 and Ferraris including 812SF.

Let me introduce 296GTB... that could be the last car you will want even if you hate "electrification". Before you start laughing, let me admit that I was also laughing when they announced it. It's not funny any more.

It does the "ring" at under 7min, it traps 1/4 at over 150mph, and can be driven daily at the same time. With minor suspension modifications it will do crazy magic on the track. Go find one to drive with standard or preferably AF track package (very GT3-like).

day355 · Nov 8, 2023

AMN said: ↑

Let me introduce 296GTB... that could be the last car you will want even if you hate "electrification". Before you start laughing, let me admit that I was also laughing when they announced it. It's not funny any more.
Click to expand...

Tell us about the emotion you feel inside this car...as exciting as watching a goldfish spin in a bowl for hours... The lap times are reserved for professional drivers in my opinion

AMN · Nov 8, 2023

day355 said: ↑

Tell us about the emotion you feel inside this car...as exciting as watching a goldfish spin in a bowl for hours... The lap times are reserved for professional drivers in my opinion
Click to expand...

Well... "emotion" is relative. Since the original poster is interested in tracking the car, I would highly recommend 296 over any front-engined V12 Ferrari because their auditory superiority will not help with track times. I would also skip 488/F8 which I have also owned. 296 is THAT good. 296 with Assetto Fiorano is what people like him should look into if they are benchmarking F cars against GT products from Porsche.

Having said all of that, I am beyond tingly about the upcoming F167 replacement for 812. Apparently the dealer can't take the deposit money until May.

ForeverNA · Nov 8, 2023

Ngcanada said: ↑

Jeez, comparing the 812 to the cars you mentioned is exactly that….the much lower price tag. I guess you could say that those cars are great for bargain hunters. The price for admission for the 812 is akin to Patek Philippe. Very expensive to enter into, so many will go with a Rolex as it does the same thing the PP does.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hahah, awesome, I knew this comment would come. Was about to say the same thing myself.

ForeverNA · Nov 8, 2023

Lukeylikey said: ↑

I agree with this. We have or have had many GT cars. They are brilliant, especially the manual 992 Touring we currently have - what a car! But it is very hard riding. The engine is a masterpiece and the front axle makes the car brilliant around the bends, the rear-engine traction enhancing that superbly. Really, it’s all the sports car you could need or want. In fact more than.

The 812 does a different thing, as does Ferrari in general. The Porsche powertrain is precise, metallic, insistent and relentless. The 812’s is organic, melodic, powerful and brings elation - just hits the spot, time and time again. The PDK is, let’s face it, a bit boring. On track it’s fantastic but the 812’s DCT adds incredible drama and makes the most of that sensational V12 whether on road or track. The PDK is a solid 8, efficient but the emotion comes from the motor not the gearbox. The 812’s transmission? 10 seems inadequate if your emotions are answering the question.

Not sure about the vibrations and lack of solidity mentioned. Seems like a fallacy to me. The Porsche powertrain gives that feeling of hewn from a single piece of metal but I can assure you it isn’t! The Ferrari doesn’t attempt to replicate that Germanic, teutonic feel. Instead it plays to its strengths - massive power, thrilling soundtrack (even better than the Porsche though it is close, so good is that flat 6), ability to put the power down despite it’s front engined format, intuitive and knife-edge handling that is still friendly enough to help you manage the power. Plus, it has Ferrari’s beautiful interior design and quality and in my opinion, looks fabulous and is able to do GT duties better than the Porsche, despite not really being a GT car. The ride is harder than other cars properly considered to be GTs such as a Bentley, but if you understand it isn’t really a GT, it starts to make a bit more sense. It is a full-blown supercar, that just happens to have a front engine instead of a mid-mounted one.

Still, the Ferrari feels solidly built and owning a Superfast, GTS and Competizione, I can tell you that solidity and quality is exceptionally good. These things are well made. Battery excepted!
Click to expand...

and buttons... hheheh. Every else I wholeheartedly agree. Also had bunches of Porsche GT cars...not in the same realm with Ferrari V12 engine. I don't even get the point of op post. What was the point? He meant to post it in RL, right?

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