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812 Spider

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by MalibuGuy, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
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    Jun 26, 2013
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    Graham
    Agreed, particularly as I see ICE cars of having reached a desirability peak. Perhaps todays best are about as good as the will get and should be held onto not replaced with what desperate manufacturers will tell you is the essential "new thing"
    I have always had regard for the gentleman who kept his Bentley for many years, I greatly admire an older chap I see most days driving to work in his immaculate Porsche 993. It is, perhaps a rejection of the aggressive capitalism of built in obsolecence and somehow more fitting with these times?
    Maybe I am over theorising and you summer it up better in four words: sod it, use it !
     
  2. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
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    A good point that !
     
  3. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
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    Olivier
    I'd like to see more pics with the top on
     
  4. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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    #1279 Bundy, Sep 17, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    Well said. We’ve owned our 1997 993TT for over 20 years. It was my all-season DD for 10 years, with two car seats in the rear in the early years for our children. Eight thousand of its 40,000 miles were also acquired on various road courses like Road America, Mid Ohio, VIR, Putnam, etc.

    A 2012 FF is now my all-season DD, and I’ve added over 20,000 miles to it in the past 3 years. Hoping to pass 100,000.

    Even our TM 812SF already has almost 5,000 miles in just a few months.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

    Aug 7, 2009
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    I believe the 812GTS UK Price is confirmed at £293,110.00 - On The Road
     
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  6. ppg70

    ppg70 Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2017
    666
    don’t remember if mentioned before.....812 GTS doesn’t have GPF
     
  7. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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    That is different information than I was given by Mr. Enrico Galliera Chief Marketing and Commercial Officer, who headed the launch preview.
     
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  8. KenU

    KenU Formula Junior
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    That is incorrect, sir.
     
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  9. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    849
    Austin TX
    Head of Ferrari engineering has confirmed 812GTS will have GPF, your source is completely inaccurate.

    https://www.carscoops.com/2019/09/ferrari-says-it-will-fight-to-retain-v12s-in-its-engine-lineup/

    Its latest V12 displaces 6.5 liters and powers the newly-unveiled 812 GTS. While this engine is largely the same as the powertrain used by the 812 Superfast, Ferrari was required to fit it with a particulate filter.

    “We will fight for this engine,” Leiters told Top Gear. “We have good ideas for its development. We now have Euro 6 regulations, which forced us to put a particulate filter on the GTS, and there are general emissions and CO2 targets especially for places like China and the United States.”
     
  10. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3
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    Pre Brexit and import tariffs !
     
  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3

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    I'd love to know who told you that, because that is simply not true. If it's your dealer or a local Ferrari rrp, it is disconcerting as it is quite common knowledge that the 812 GTS has GPF.
     
  12. BaronM69

    BaronM69 Formula Junior
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    Aug 29, 2005
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    So the prices are confirmed, the allocation rules are confirmed, and the deliveries are late 2020 early 2021?

    ?!
     
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  13. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

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    I have been told dealer demonstrators mid 2020 with RHD customer cars Q4 2020 onwards.
     
  14. PTG1

    PTG1 Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2017
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    Yes it does have GPF but, it's set far from the engine so it makes little difference to sound is the claim unlike in the v8 which is close to the engine so has a huge impact on sound
    Sent from my CLT-L09 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  15. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,812
    Bournemouth, UK
    I don't think that matters. The induction and pure engine sound is not impacted by the PPF. The exhaust sound is, but that has nothing to do with the distance between the filters and the engine. The problem with the V8s is that the turbos mute the engine sound and the PPF mutes the exhaust sound. The N/A V12 is inherently more noisy and with clever trickery they will be able to bypass the PPF sound limitations. The fact of the matter though remains that there are forthcoming noise limits and engine-exhaust sound will have to be muted anyway.
     
  16. Shack

    Shack Formula 3
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    Confirmed by the product engineer ( I spoke to at Universo) the distance does matter and this helps keep the sound consistent with the coupe
     
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  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3

    May 29, 2019
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    A few things to consider. One is that a lot of the sound of the 812 actually comes from the intake, not the exhaust. That being said, I cannot see how it will effect the exhaust sound just because you move the filter 1.5 meters further down the stream. It's the same resonance, it's the same gas velocity etc. Look at the path of a gas turbine for example. They can be built with the turbine right after the gas generator, but also with the turbine 10 meters downstream without it having any effect. In the exhaust gas path, the gasses will not change speed or pressure over that distance as far as I can see. I have a close relative who's an engineer who's been designing wind tunnels and gas paths for turbines and pumps for the past 25 years, and I told him about this. He said categorically that there's no way the distance in the gas path can affect the sound over such a short distance in this application. The only effect the pipe length can have, is in frequency tuning, and with this length of pipe, were talking very low resonances barely audible. I know he does not design cars and car exhausts for a living, but he does deal with sonic resonance, velocities, pressures etc, in the same way, so I do take his word on face value. I've been working in pro audio in my youth, and consider myself a bit of an audiophile buff, and I cannot see how this distance can have an impact on the sound other than the pipe frequency tuning itself. With the scream of the 812 engine, we are dealing with frequencies way higher than what a long tube will have an effect on. However, chances are that the absorbing material in the GPF itself is fairly light in a small chamber, so logic and physics dictates that it will absorb high frequency waves rather than low frequency waves. By how much? Who knows. It might not be as bad as some fear, and looking at the numbers in terms of power loss due to GPF, it looks like they are a fair bit less restrictive than cats.

    An interesting prospect is this. Could a decatted 812 with GPF sound similar to a non GPF 812 with sport cats? My theory is this.

    A stock cat robs roughly 20 PS.
    A Novi cat robs about 15 PS.
    A GPF robs 16 PS.

    So, in the stock system, the cats are still the most restrictive part of the entire system.

    My theory is that GPF only has about the same restrictive properties as a Novi cat, thus I wonder if it will affect the sound about the same if that's the only restriction in the exhaust path? Time will tell, but it might be possible.
     
  18. gds7368

    gds7368 Rookie

    May 28, 2015
    22
    Columbus, Ohio
    In all seriousness ... how obstructed will the rear quarter view be (from the driver's seat) over those buttresses?
     
  19. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
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    (a) Very
    (b) Completely, or
    (C) OMG! Where the f*** did that truck come from?
     
  20. klinkman

    klinkman Formula Junior
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    Jan 29, 2018
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    In all seriousness, do you drive an 812, or do you have a sense of how obstructed the rearward view is already?

    The answer is d) about 4-5" (~100mm) of a tiny triangle of a window with the seat all the way back. I have never looked through this window when lane changing.

    My opinion is the rearward view will improve quite a bit with the top down. Here's the view from the driver's seat:


    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Newjoint

    Newjoint Karting

    Jan 17, 2016
    233
    Having had a 458 and 488 spider with essentially the same buttresses and mechanism you quickly learn to check the passenger side mirror to clear the blind spot before changing lanes.
    It is not much different from the view above with the top up but much better with the top down. Then use the throttle expeditiously!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  22. klinkman

    klinkman Formula Junior
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    exactly
     
  23. Griffon83

    Griffon83 Formula Junior

    Dec 5, 2016
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    Nassos
    I guess it's also a PITA to do parallel parking with such restricted visibility.
     
  24. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2015
    647
    In all seriousness, I always picked "c" when I didnt know the answer.
     

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