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Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Frenzisko

    Frenzisko Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    Jimmie
  3. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
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    Haha nice photoshop skills!
    I’m sure there will be a limited edition version of the 812.
    Not sure which direction it will be.
    A more track focused car like the TDF again?
    Or maybe an Aperta version following the Barchetta open top, SuperAmerica (rotating top), 599 GTO Aperta?
    Or even better would be a folding hardtop version!
     
  4. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2011
    4,978
    Bournemouth, UK
    Hopefully, yes.
     
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  5. F140C

    F140C Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2016
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    Piedmont
    I'd also like to see an even more track-focused car like the 599XX, which was unveiled about 9 years ago. Time for a replacement?
     
  6. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Track focused and 812 combined give meaning to the term "oxymoron".
    It would be a herculean task to take the 4,000 plus pounds of 812 and turn it into a track weapon. Ferrari builds wonderful big and heavy cars but they could offer so much more performance with much less weight to haul around. The difference would be like night and day.
    What Ferrari needs is a much smaller automobile, having a weight of 2,700 pounds with fluids. Maximum width of 73 inches and length of 175 inches. Unfortunately they won't commit the big dollars necessary to utilize light weight materials and design solutions that would get a thousand plus pounds of excess weight out of the car. Instead it will be yet more horsepower to try and compensate for the huge burden of weight they have inherited with this present design.
    The short answer; there is no incentive for Ferrari to change their bloated habits...
     
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  7. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,107
    Sad truth is, without turbochargers power comes with high capacity (and heavy) engines.
    There is still magic in the NA V12 though...
     
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  8. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
    4,466
    Malibu, CA
    #8 MalibuGuy, Feb 11, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    To shed weight, do the front and rear bumpers in Carbon Fiber, also do trunk lid roof and front bonnet in carbon fiber as well door skins and Wing mirrors.

    Do the rear glass in Perspex.
    Ditch carpet and sound deadening material
    Wind up windows and no electric seat motors just racing seats with mechanical adjustment.

    Use Titanium metal wherever possible not just lug bolts. How about hub/carrier exhaust plumbing.

    Carbon fiber transmission pipe instead of metal?

    And do a short wheelbase and ditch the weight of the electrical rear wheel steer mechanism
     
  9. j09333

    j09333 Formula Junior
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    May 7, 2004
    529
    200kg gone and the car will fly.
    Only modes for this one should be sport, ct off and esc off plus no bumpy road thingy
     
  10. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    No bumpy road mode might sound appealing, but in reality, you want that button as when the road surface isn't flat, you often want a more subtle damper setting to allow the tires to maintain more contact with the road. You may have heard of the person who suggested that button to them..... Michael Schumacher :)
     
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  11. j09333

    j09333 Formula Junior
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    May 7, 2004
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    I found magnetic dampers dangerous or not helpful since it suddenly upsets balance when pushed beyond its limit. It is just not for any sporty driving or track use if one pushes car to the edge. I agree on getting as much grip but other than poor surfaces, I found myself not using them and furthermore I tend to avoid any poor roads in the first place.
    At least, that is just me :)
     
  12. j09333

    j09333 Formula Junior
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    May 7, 2004
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    #12 j09333, Feb 11, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    Let me put it this way.
    When bumpy is on, you reach the limit rather loosely and suddenly you have no grip and car is slipping.
    When off, you know you are reaching the limit and you are better prepared.
    Also, in some cars, when pushed over limit, some magnetic dampers thorw back the body to you rather too harshly it upsets the car even more.

    Drive M3 for instance and try to slide with soft mode and you most likely over correct the slide to fish tail. Also car bouces off when changing slide direction to other side or even worse, it will trick the driver about what is going underneath

    So for me, poor surface means slow down. Thus no bumpy mode :)
     
  13. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Mar 3, 2012
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    Don’t think I’m on that page at all. My RS’ greatest weakness is too stiff suspension. It is a blindingly fast car around bends, except when the road is even slightly broken. At which point my old 40hp less and half a tonne heavier Cali would be quicker. Manthey knocked a heap of time off its ring time, almost entirely by softening the dampers.

    The bumpy road button is critical to increase grip on bumpy or wet roads/surfaces. They will not remove it if they are serious about performance.

    As for weight, pretty harsh to say they don’t invest in lightweight materials - their aluminium tech is mighty expensive, their use of carbon becoming extensive (checkout new 488VS) and even engine components - new 488 VS has more than 700hp with 10% less weight. Carbon wheels coming, with 40% less UNSPRUNG weight!

    If you want 812 VS lighter than TDF by a big margin, you have to lose the one thing that sets it apart - the engine. Then what’s the point?
     
  14. markonex

    markonex Formula Junior

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    Technically, the substitute remains the FXXK EVO, difficult to beat with a 812 XX, so can't see this happening
     
  15. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
    4,466
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    The other limited edition possibility would be one with an open or convertible top.

    Would there be greater demand for an Aperta or a GTO?
     
  16. markonex

    markonex Formula Junior

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    #16 markonex, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    An aperta 812 is far less interesting than an 812 TDF, with new aero features, engine boost and track focused bits. The Aperta is only good for the few that can buy it, the TDF is good and fantastic to all design, style, performances and Ferrari innovation enthusiasts!!!
     
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  17. R J

    R J Formula Junior
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    May 17, 2017
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    The UK is entirely bumpy road.
     
  18. DavidJames1

    DavidJames1 Formula 3
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    They’re doing an 812 convertible which will not be a special model as I understand it. I have no idea what a VS/LE version would be.
     
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  19. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    Sorry to go a bit off topic, but I think there is a difference between being able to soften the suspension (in our case dampening)- as other types of suspension systems allow this- vs the variable nature of the magnetic dampers. You might have a lot more experience than I, but my experience is I never had any problem driving a car with these dampers, and I had a 599 which was the first Ferrari application of this technology. It was never an issue on the track. I also refuse to believe Ferrari would put out a technology, and then keep using that technology in all their cars for over a decade, that is truly dangerous.

    As to poor roads, yes, its best to avoid them, but some simply cannot.
     
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  20. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    This Thread is TWO years too early o_O
     
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  21. markonex

    markonex Formula Junior

    Jul 31, 2015
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    Never too early to think to VS versions for those who cannot buy Ferrari but love the brand innovation, however, you're right in the sense that nothing will be here before 2020.
     
  22. JagShergill

    JagShergill Formula Junior

    Dec 31, 2014
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    Not d
    I take your point however I think the market would be somewhat different than that . An 812 Aperta would give a fabulous more visceral experience than the amazing coupe ( assuming rigidity is comparable and I'm sure Il will be ..) as the already superb 812 engine note becomes exaggerated in the open top. Also , it's important to bear in mind an Aperta 812 would necessarily entail some aero changes to at least match the coupe ( hopefully with a folding hardtop but possibly even as a barchetta). Ferrari would ensure that anyone having this Aperta wouldn't feel shortchanged compared to the VS- just different . Personally , I'm a sucker for whatever amazing things ferrari do ..... they've had me hooked for 21 years
     
  23. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    Yes and no. Of course you are right. But you have to remember, Ferrari is a passion for so many and its because they capture our imaginations like no one else can. Thus, you can't blame the Tifosi (is this plural also?) for being curious and wondering "what if".

    The threshold question for me is will they offer it in both Berinetta and Aperta models, or will they offer it in just one or the other. My pure total speculation is they will offer it as both as this addresses different types of clients and also gives them more cars to sell. Will the Aperta model be similar to what they did with the F60 America? All I know is I am looking forward to the journey.
     
  24. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,107
    There is no miracle, a convertible cannot have the same stiffness as a berlinetta when using an aluminium structure.
    Limiting the damage comes with a weight penalty, which is not good news for a 812 which is already rather heavy.
    This being said, I understand that some people will enjoy the magic of a V12 in a convertible - but it's a different option that cannot be a real sports car.
     
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  25. F140C

    F140C Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2016
    985
    Piedmont
    Tifosi is already plural.

    Tifoso = singular, male
    Tifosa = singular, female
    Tifosi = plural, male
    Tifose = plural, female

    Me too!
     

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