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Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.
Send pics, speccing mine in new year,
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I have interest in the GTS as well. Enjoy your time configuring and congratulations.
I love a trip to the Atelier, the food, wine, Montana, atmo, factory tour. Heaven.
Whilst very much of the UK market is in pieces, I have seen written offers well over list for a Pista Spider in the last week and know of two that changed hands at a notable premium. Well not TDF style but better than a kick in the ..... Maybe when final numbers ( around TDF level of 800 not 459 SA of 500) are known it will be steady. But yes , in any case, the Ferrari low depreciation situation has well passed they now are in the lead balloon category. Over supply and over priced like Bentley , Aston, McLaren etc. Not quite 2 a penny but the allure of exclusivity shattered in record time. Prices are far too high for the new walk in walk out get one anytime model, at least 20 percent overpriced for a relatively easily available manufacturer. That number is the market reset of prices for zero miles new cars. Ferrari cannot have their cake and eat it and the used car market carnage they have created is at the early stages. No they will not become worthless, but they will not justify their lofty new prices. You cannot increase prices and volumes at the same time, that really is just too greedy. Never forgetting, that the product is exceptional in any form or variation you choose. Ferrari make incredible cars. They just overprice them and over build them and the market is reacting in an increasingly decisive manner. Best time to buy a new lightly used Ferrari in a decade. Unless I wanted a personal spec , atelier or Tailor Made, you would be mental to buy new when so many great spec cars of any model are available at a 15 to 20% percent discount with delivery miles .
You say they make “incredible” cars, is that an objective assessment ? Take the mid engined cars, the interior is utterly dated, MMI embarrassing and they couldn’t justify the far superior carbon monocoque and stick with a cheaper solution with scuttle shake in the Spider. For example. I think their brand is for sure superior and perhaps drive trains but not sure markedly so.
I love them to be clear but .....
Cars specifically overpriced are the Lusso and FF and the market adjusts accordingly. I am told by the dealer that this is the price to play. My response is F off, I can always play without you. There are always options, especially these days.
Well you keep buying them. No idea why as you clearly dislike so much about them. Strange you are buying them for the brand not the product. But then people buy many luxury goods to be seen with them rather than believing in them.
I dislike the commercial policy, but find overall, they make incredible cars, from a performance , handling, balance, feel, and feedback perspective that is unmatched. But I have never considered how the brand makes me feel , that is a new one for me, but clearly underestimated when there are clients who do not really like the product but prioritise what it means to be seen with the brand, and willing to spend notable sums of money to be associated with the brand too. A bit like the other luxury brands with in your face brand logos . Good on you if that is what you desire. Each to their own. On that level as you say the brand is superior.
Why only Ferrari gets blamed for not using carbon monocoques? If it’s so much superior why don’t Porsche, Aston, Lambo, Mercedes etc use it?
Ferrari does a good enough job keeping people interested but they are not the best at any one thing. The special cars are usually fantastic but the everyday versions are OK, dare I say pedestrian. Their competitors have made them step their game up. For example the F8 is a direct reaction to the 720 which in my opinion falls short. Flame suit on. With this said, I love my Pista and will likely order a GTS as there really isn't anything out there that competes today.
Me too. Just not blind, I don’t think my wife is the prettiest of all my mates either. I buy other brands. I love F as stated but apart from V12 engine nothing especially notable right now. Mac 675 LT remains by far the best mid engine i have driven.
Yay some independent thinking love it
Not sure I can only say that based on my experience it’s fabulous and I am told far safer in a collision. Guess the fact that higher up the F product line it is used tells all one needs to know regarding desirability.
Or maybe that it only makes sense for relative small production numbers? The 4c uses it too down Fca’s line
I think Ferrari is tops with:
* Integration of electronics with drivetrain / transmission
* Style / Design
* Model differentiation
Add it up and its hard to beat.
You paid your Pista a lot and you're proud and happy with it, which is nice - but I don't see why the F8 should fall short; it has more or less the same engine as the Pista and weights only 50 kg more... If it's not expensive enough for you, that does not mean it has to be pedestrian (not for me anyway, I'm cheap and happy to pay less ).
It never has anything to do with price - never. My GT3 was 1/2 the price and super fun. It all comes down to what you personally prefer. For the F8, I would like to see one lowered slightly with different wheels, I bet this will make a huge difference alone.
Ferrari does a very good job with all the things that you mentioned here. I would say that specifically they stand out with design and engines. There are few models that Ferrari has developed since their inception that I would not consider. Heck, I am even a fan of the FF and Lusso where many are not.
It would be ideal if they developed "special" versions along side for people wanting something a bit different vs. waiting until the end of the model cycle. I think this is coming soon though or at least the option to choose the drive train in a certain car.
Carbon chassis' offer numerous benefits including structural rigidity, lightweight, etc. There is a reason it is used in motorsport and hyper cars as well as the "special" versions of Ferrari, i.e. Pista, TDF and others. The reason it is not more commonly used is because of cost to develop and manufacturer. It likely comes down to a business decision. Ferrari and Porsche for example have no issue selling cars that use steel and aluminum so why change? McLaren being a newer company started this from the start to help set them apart and it has worked to some extent. It is not the sole feature that makes them what they are but certainly contributes to the overall performance.
Only the F50, the Enzo and the LaFerrari have a carbon chassis. The Pista has a regular 488 chassis with a few carbon body panels.
Right - the others I referenced use carbon parts. Ferrari reserves the carbon chassis for the higher end cars which tells you something.
It tells us that CF, like all materials, has its pros and cons. For serial production aluminium has some advantages also.
Imo: alu + e-diff > carbon + open diff.
Also probably why mclarens speed advantage in a straight line kind of vanishes for lap times.
And half the new SF90
Carbon has weaknesses. Vibration is obvious if you make a car with carbon everthing. Aluminium provides more refined ride quality. I prefer alu body F than carbon Mc if I have to take long trip.
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I think CF isn't all the same. As I understand it, the CF Ferrari uses on their supercars is made in a process that is more time and energy consuming than what McLaren uses. But it results in a CF that is stronger per unit of mass. Thus, they can use less of it to attain a certain strength. It is very similar to what Ferrari uses for F1.
Since McLaren has to build thousands of units, they need to optimize their CF for faster and less expensive build. Their CF is not as strong given a unit of mass, thus, they need to use more of it. You might ask why the Ultimate Series cars have the same type of construction as their regular series cars. While they are often lighter than an aluminum framed car, they are not always so much lighter. They also often feature higher side sills you have to step over. For some that's not a big deal, for some it is. There are also issues with repairing. And the aforementioned vibrations. But there are also pros such as greater frame stiffness especially on the spider models.
In my experience, its great to geek out on tech specs, but its really only one part of the experience.