812 without GPF or with? Is there power difference?

I encourage you to try the 812 I’d love to have your opinion since like you the F12 was always the best for me

 

To be honest i wasnt convinced to start with the design of the GTS I didn’t like the rear and much preferred the coupe which I find more accomplished and in keeping with traditional ferrari front engine v12
As it relates to the sound i’m not sure whether they indeed use the GTS in the video but my personal impression which was immediate is that it didn’t sound like a proper na v12 and didnt sound like either my 812 or f12. So for me to go ahead with the order i had to be in love with both the design and the sound/emotion which i couldn’t totally find at the launch. The 812SF coupe is brilliant and while I may be wrong i dont regret a second going for the coupe which almost managed to make me move on from the F12.

 

Not sure I quite get you. I mean, yes the sound is important, but the most important is how it drives. Isn't it a bit superficial to discard the GTS just because it might not be quite as loud? You still get a drop top Ferrari V12 which in itself is very special, and in a car that is very much a drivers car. I think how the car drives should be what matters, and then we can leave the overly shouty stuff for the trust fund kids revving the nuts off papas Lambo in the middle of Knightsbridge.
Is a 458 louder than a Pista? Yes. Is it half the experience and thrill? Not even close.
Lastly, it is worth noting that you will experience the GTS as much louder with the roof down. If you decat it and put a full system on it, I suspect that you will experience it as being louder than your SF.

Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

I can’t disagree with your comments but ultimately when the time came for me to make a decision i guess a combination of design ( as I said I ‘m rather a coupe person and prefer the design of the coupe) and what the car made me feel i decided against the GTS. I do agree that it’s not about having a loud car to drive around Harrods but the emotion one can get from the sound of the engine as far as I’m concerned is a key part of the decision and what makes you fall in love with the car. As I said I may have been wrong but at the launch I just wasn’t fully convinced by either the design or the sound and thought the coupe would be more a car for me than the GTS.
Your comparison speciale Vs Pista is an interesting one and a question I ask myself if I were to add one or the other to my garage alongside the 812. In that case I may well choose the Pista though it doesnt sound as dramatic as the speciale but in my eyes it is such a beautiful car maybe more beautiful in my eyes than the speciale. So back to the 812/GTS yes i thought i wasn’t convinced by the sound of the GTS but part of why I didn’t go for it was also probably because i found the lines of thecoupe more beautiful, and more traditional GT Ferrari.

 

As soon as factory and dealer will open , I will have my 812 because they sent me picture for completion beginning of March . I let you know .

 

I totally agree

 

I’m in love with Ferrari obviously for performances , for design but also for sound . Performances are not all ( we can buy the new electric Porsche otherwise) , electric motors have better torque and I think performances too but I’m too old (58) to wish performances without a proper noise and this is even more underlined for those choosing a NA 12 instead of a 8 turbo .

 

This is why Speciale Vs Pista is a very difficult choice for me.
Performance is important true but for me personally most of the time I dont drive my car on the track and therefore the sound/emotion effect is key . Beauty and sound..the winner is the one that ticks both boxes for me

 

Removing the GPF will require reprogramming of the ECU(s); non-trivial; and dealer cannot waive that with the factory, so, unless you are good with voiding your powertrain warranty, none will even consider a GPF delete option, should one ever materialize. The best hope for USA and other areas not requiring a GPF is for the factory to simply not build the car with GPF, although that is highly unlikely since engines are built to a single standard and built independently of the chassis. I still hope the factory does build non-GPF V12s...

 

Yes, fair points. I have kept my GTS order in place for now (it was scheduled for July build...but who knows now... I'm assuming I receive it early 2021. UK based). As you say, roof down adds a lot of volume for those in the cabin (and the cool thing is you can lower rear window in GTS but keep roof up...a nice touch). Will see what the GTS sounds like in person before I consider exhaust mods. BTW I have had 100 cell sports cats for a few months now on my SF and have concluded it's too loud... start up is brutal and even driving it is OK from inside the cabin (which is well insulated) but have been told it's very, very loud from the outside. So I don't think I'll be modifying the cats on the GTS. The world is increasingly turning against loud cars so being (somewhat) more low key makes sense... especially in an economic recession..

 

True, but the coupe will most certainly drive better than the targa/convertible.

They have a great launch but the 812 will absolutely destroy a Taycan above 100 kph.

 

A lot of the V12 experience is engine sound, of which you lose nothing with GPF. I am sure they will make it as good as possible.

 

I've personally heard the GTS inside and outside and there's a noticeable difference in exhaust note and tone compared to the 812SF. Especially on the up-revs, not nearly as gutteral, unfortunately.

 

Fair enough but it’s a predicament we are going to have to do deal with. My Speedster has GPF and my Gt3rs did not and I can’t for the life of me remember the exact difference. I can tell it’s a bit plugged but I am still having a blast because with the roof off it’s just that added extra you need and you forget about the rest. I think we will love the GTS, even if it’s 80percent of the SFV12 there is nothing on the market like it and at some point someone will figure out how to get rid of the GFP plug sound. I personally can’t wait for an open top V12 I personally think I will drive it more and really enjoy the car. I am taller and feel a little cramped in the 812 roof design, opening it up will be perfect.

 

Can I ask why you had to modify the cats on your 812? I personally find it already loud enough, certainly more than the F12 was, but that’s personal

 

That’s a shame. I wonder how much difference it will make by replacing the rear boxes with some decent ones (eg Novitec). It may help to make the sound a little more raw and raspy? I think part of the reason the GTS is quieter is to comply with new noise regs so in theory replacing the rear boxes should help

As an example, this is the Lambo SVJ (also a naturally aspirated V12) which has a GPF fitted. This UK-based firm has an aftermarket exhaust... it sounds pretty angry despite GPF...!

 

The main reason is because the sound proofing in the cabin is good, so that I found it to be too quiet with the stock cats. I agree though, from the outside it’s a bit too much with the sports cats fitted. Especially on a cold start - it’s annoyingly loud.

 

Just sounds wild, I need a Aventador in my life one day!

 

Are you sure about the GPF on that? I am fairly certain it is not on that.

 

Yes, I am sure. I have spoken to BRE about it and their decision to leave the GPF alone and fit their after market exhaust downstream of it. The GPF is also mentioned in the description below the video.

 

I am fairly sure these were not even installed on this model at all though from the factory. Are you suggesting this was added by BRE?

 

From ********** earlier in year before
https://**********.com/p/the-opf-pandoras-box-for-many-petrolheads-Bm-gdk1XSxe-XzbN8VUqEQ?iid=UdWxKzkERI-mqV4jm4AHKQ

Example 1: Lamborghini

Lamborghini is known for their high pitch natural aspirated engines screaming away and shooting flames galore. To comply with the older NEDC, the V10's and V12's in the lineup were always homologated based on their quieter STRADA mode, allowing for CORSA to be loud and in your face. Exactly what a Lamborghini should be! From 2019 onwards, this is all over. The next generation Lambo V10's and V12's only sold in Europe (and maybe China) will sound a lot quieter, are homologated on CORSA mode and are outfitted with OPF's in the exhaust line. This means additional weight added to the car and a more quiet sound track without flames or hardly any pops & bangs. CORSA mode is only allowed to be as loud as STRADA was before in the old situation!

You might ask yourself why Lamborghini is affected and why do I use this brand as an example. The reason is quite simple. Lamborghini is part of the VAG group (remember Dieselgate) and a decision was made within the group that across the whole group all cars should receive a OPF filter even if they did not need one. Bentley's W12 engine is for instance a great example of this. It complies with the WLTP even without the filter, but the VAG group has made a clear decision and doesn't want to end up in another Dieselgate situation. The Aventador SVJ Coupe will be the last Lamborghini without an OPF and therefore a decent exhaust tune.

 

Why would an after market tuner add a GPF? That makes no sense. The SVJ came with GPF fitted - at least the model in the video did.

https://www.facebook.com/1585849595007810/posts/-bre-lamborghini-svj-complete-with-a-07mm-wall-inconel-x-pipe-watch-the-video-to/2393024224290339/

 

I agree that it doesn't make any sense to install aftermarket.
However just because they say it on that facebook post does not provide fact to that and is patently false. I am telling you that the brand and model in particular were not installed with GPFs as they were derivatives of earlier models and did not require that to be done.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=235&t=1833808 as another point of reference even as of November 2019

 

I have spoken to BRE; they are experts in after market exhausts. They described the GPF on this particular car in detail and explained their reasons why they would not remove it (requires ECU tune). I very much doubt these guys got it wrong and there was in fact no GPF on that car.

I have done some quick searching and agree, it seems the SVJ should not have GPF fitted. Maybe the car in question was a 2020 version, EU - spec, or something else but I am convinced it had GPF fitted, having myself spoken to the head of BRE about it.

I hope it did have GPF fitted because it shows what's possible with an after market exhaust!