'82 308 H4 upgrade?

Weren't the old headlight bulbs 55 or 65 watts (on high/low)? If so, you have not increased the electrical load so nothing has changed from that perspective.

 

many years ago i installed h4's in my 84 308 and did not burn anything up- they were a direct fit replacement- so i don't recall reaiming being an issue. I don't remember the exact power rating of the bulbs but they were the most powerfull available at the time

 

A little more info:

bergxu has a 1982 GTSi; I have a 1980 GTBi. We both removed our sealed beams and installed E-code optics with 55/60 H4 lamps. We went for a short drive. When we returned, my lights all went out at once. It turned out that the wiring and relay had gotten so hot that it started to melt the relay board at the connection. Just enough plastic melted to ooze its way into the connection (where the relay plugs into the board) and insulate it, causing the lights to go out. I noticed that even with the stock sealed beams, the headlight wiring gets very hot at the relay (as does the relay itself). I cleaned the terminals very well, and everything still gets hot.

I had never had a problem with standard wattage H4s in any car with 7" lights. Standard 7" sealed beams are 45/55 watts, and standard H4s are 55/60 watts. It seems that most cars of that era are wired with enough capability to handle the extra 20/10 watts that a pair of H4s uses, but this was not the case with my GTBi over the weekend.

So, here are a couple more questions:

1) To everyone: Does your headlight relay get hot to the touch from just standard sealed beams? What about standard H4s? Please don't assume here; remove the panel and touch it.

2) Is there a difference in the headlight circuits between early 2Vi and later 2vi cars? My early GTBi has a lot of carryover features from carbed cars, such as no power mirrors and no ceiling console; do carbed cars have a different headlight circuit?


Aaron, on your car, you need to adjust the stop positions of your headlight pods/motors, before you start shimming the headlight mounting assemblies. You noticed how when you turn your lights off, the pods raise slightly before they go back down. It could be the electrical stopping points for the rotation of the arms, or it could be the alignment of the linkage.

- T

 

Actually, 7" sealed beams are 45/55 each, and standard H4s are 55/60. So you have increased the load, by a combined 20 watts on low and 10 watts on high. Most cars' stock electrical systems can handle it. The question is, can 308s'?

 

That's amazing...... it's actually only a 10 watt increase on each low side and 5 watts on each high side because by law the wiring and fuses between left and right headlights must be separate. Yes, the total load increased by 20 and 10 watts but only by 10 and 5 watts on each wiring branch. That would seem to indicate that the original engineering was practically on the limit from new. Crazy..........

 

Separate fuses, but a common (dual output) relay! What good is that?!?


When I make an electrical circuit for something, I like to overdo it and provide a margin of safety. If the math tells me that 12-guage wire will do, I use 10 or 8. Gets expensive, comparatively. What annoys me is some engineers I know will say something like "you don't need to do that" in a tone of voice as if I am doing something wrong. Sorry, fellas; I'm doing something right. The calculator takes not into account the real world. Obviously, someone at Ferrari calculated that the fuel pump and headlight circuit only needed a certain gauge of wire, and they went with that. I perfectly understand decisions like that in mass-produced cars like FIATs and Fords (economically, resources, etc.), but in an expensive car like a Ferrari, one would think they would overengineer certain things just a bit. The Germans (Porsche, Mercedes) traditionally have done a better job at things like this.

 

i'm running 100 watt bulbs in my 81 gtsi. i must be the only one in the forum that has not had a problem. regards, jon s.

 

The relay should barely get warm from coil heat...if your relay is heating from contact current, change the relay.
I've not had headlight switch failure but the fear of such failure was part of why I added outboard relays,
one at each bucket. Fused battery voltage goes to high and low beam relays. Headlight switch voltage
energized the appropriate outboard relay coil so headlights get amps and switch sees milliamps.


_______________________
308 Ferrari Wiring Diagrams
http://www.ferrari308gtbi.com/

 

YES! The factory headlights for Euro 308/328s was a non sealed beam 7" headlight (Carello?) with an H4 halogen 55w/60w bulb. The factory wiring and relays were designed to handle the load. If you read the owners manual and work shop manual, you will see descriptions of the euro code headlights.

 

I swapped in another relay, and it still got hot. The heat is from amperage/resistance, not the electromagnetic coil. I'm still waiting for an answer from someone else who actually popped off their fuse panel cover and touched the relay with the headlights on for more than a few minutes. We all know the fuel pump relays do it.

F355Spider -- are the U.S. spec cars wired the same as the European market cars? With many other manufacturers, they are not, so I'm not about to assume Ferrari 308s are.


Oh well, I'll probably just put in new wiring in a heavier gauge . . . and eventually add external relays to power the headlights directly from the battery . . .

 

I have not yet gotten into the lights, been burried in carbs, clutch, brakes....

There have been quite a few posts with electrical problems with the lights, wiring, relays, and when it gets bad, the NLA, (except for Verell's repairs), light switch, so it seems too me that it makes sense to lighten the load on the light switch and go with bigger wires, clean contacts, new relays and get a reliable big light on the road.

While i was jamming to get the car ready for the first track day, i completely overlooked checking the lights and, with fuel pump problems, i ended up driving at night, through the mountains, tired, stressed and with only one low beam.

To me, this is a real safety issue and i am not even worried a bit about moving beyond stock to get safer, more consistent lights.

Here is an in depth thread on this issue: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65424&highlight=ultimate+lights+308

end of rant...and looking forward to upgrading the lights,
chris

 

Based on what I have seen in the WSM, I would say yes. The gauge of the wire and relay layout is the same.