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83 Boxer engine and gearbox rebuild

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Newman, May 31, 2018.

  1. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    Paul, Have seen quite a few aluminum engines repaired after throwing a rod. Any chance that engine could of been saved?
     
  2. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Yes it could be repaired, much worse has been im sure. The problem is no demand for the part and I would prefer a block that didn't have a hole poked in it. Maybe it'll get fixed? Eurospares has boxer engines of all 3 varieties in stock and no takers for years.
     
  3. 4right

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    Thats really nice, Is that out of an Indy car?
     
  4. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Yes a 2003 Dallara
     
  5. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Off topic I know but its interesting to look at. All core plugs are retained with snap rings. Losing coolant at any speed wouldn't do rear tire traction any favours.

    Water pump and alternator are shaft driven on one side, the other side is the oiling system. 8 throttle plates are cool and a carbon fibre air box.

    I can buy an adapter plate for the bellhousing that allows a T56 transmission to be bolted up to it and also provides a place for a starter motor that sits beside the transmission rather than beside the engine where theres no room. The Indy starters are hand held and plugged into the rear of the gearbox and kept in the pits once the car is started.

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  6. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Its a 3.5L and as per Indy rules the engine weighs 280lbs. Limited to 10300 RPM as well. The rules are super strict just like F1 I imagine.
     
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  7. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    The drive for the accessories on the side of the block is just like the original 1967 Cosworth DFV.
     
  8. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    A DFV is an engine I want, problem is they're often pieced together rather than original engines unfortunately.
     
  9. ago car nut

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    I know someone who had a set of cyl. heads off one!
     
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  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Setting ring end gaps. The file fit rings start with no gap and need to be .015" top and 2nd. In another restoration thread I discussed the ring manufacturers suggesting a larger 2nd gap than the top ring to allow blow-by gasses to escape rather than get trapped between the rings causing a ring seal problem. This ring set is the same manufacturer and now its revised to say same gap top and 2nd ring. We're only talking a .002" change in gap vs the old way on this bore size. It used to be larger for the top ring years ago, the theory being it ran hotter than the 2nd ring so it grew more at operating temp so it needed more room without binding as the gap closed at temp. Constantly changing as they figure new things out! Maybe the ring material is more stable now? They don't say. The pistons are no different in that the minute details change over time from the number of oil return holes and position to the ring groove size and with or without expansion grooves between the rings.

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  11. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    Read an article from one of the ring manufactures, Did plenty of tests, and said wider ring gap wasn't much of a factor! But I still file rings to fit.
     
  12. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I read that sealed power or someone like that did testing on engine output and leakdown numbers. Said anything below 20% leak had no effect on HP. I can see how that’s the case because the compression and power stroke is a fraction of a second event. No time for much to leak past but that isn’t taking low engine speed, emissions or oil consumption into consideration. They made it sound like it doesn’t matter. This engine I’m rebuilding had mostly good numbers (I would have to look in my notes to see actual numbers) but it had oil dripping out of an exhaust port!
     
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  13. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    #113 ago car nut, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:42 PM
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019 at 2:48 PM
    I remember when Total Seal Gapless rings was all the rage. The two top rings! Now mostly on second ring only. Anti reversion headers and mid expansion chambers on 4 strokes too! Fads come and go! Smokey Yunick and the torque plates for cylinder honing was a big deal and still is! The man did a lot of deep thinking. Mostly Chevies Paul! As they say in the Chevrolet. You never hear them called Chevies in the south! Always referred to as" CHEVROLETS" Along with Tars and sturing wheels!
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Chevy's is correct! Yes Smokey Yunick knew his stuff and he's the one that said compression ratio doesn't effect HP only torque and did a lot of dyno testing to prove it.

    Ive used gapless rings in the past, went back to conventional and haven't looked back.
     
  15. jjeffries

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    Paul, love that Cosworth engine. Now you need a RR Merlin; I've read the Packard-built examples are better made (American production engineering vs English blokes using files...)
    I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the flat-12 go back together because I'm trying to imagine how the rods and pistons get fastened; no doubt, all will become clear. Also, how did you calculate how much to take off the one block half to achieve optimum main bearing fit (and what alerted you to the problem? Plastigage?)
    I know you're busy but this is like a Master Class and I really want to keep up with the lessons! Best as always, John
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I would love a Merlin as well and looked into them about 6 months ago. It would eat one full garage space not to mention the cost but that would be the ultimate engine for me. That or maybe an old F1 flat 12 but I would have to sell my house to afford one.

    If you look on the top of the block there's 6 small holes with two studs, thats the access hole for the top rod bolts of the opposite bank. The bottom ones you get from below. Because you bring the bolts up to torque in 3 stages you need to rotate the crank a number of times to finish all 12.

    As for the block we always check main saddle alignment with a tool and check bore sizes. The middle 3 were shifted just over a thou which doesn't seem like much until you take the clearance into account. Like all engines (even my Indy engine) you run .001" for every inch of diameter. So a 2.5" main journal will want .0025" clearance. If the main is shifted .001" then we're running too tight although it would still spin. We took .003" off one block half now making the mains oval and undersize essentially. Bolt the block halves back together then run the align hone through and check again. As I went through the torque sequence on block final assembly I continued to check how the crank spun and its great.
     
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  17. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Rookie
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    under merlin you mean the merlin in the mustangs from 2. world war or the merlin in the tanks? both are called merlin engines, but they are not the same
    I once baught a merlin tank engine from the swiss army and someone in switzerland with a mustang had a look at this engine and told me that they are not the same. but in my basement I still have a continental engine from the tank M48 ;)
     
  18. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    War plane engine please complete with short exhaust manifolds. I can just see the look on my neighbours face if I fired one up.
     
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  19. jjeffries

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    Thanks very much for that excellent explanation Paul, and now I know what those little access ports are for. I believe the tank version of the Merlin is the RR Meteor.
     
  20. turbo-joe

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    no, it was from a centurion tank
     
  21. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Ive heard them called that as well and I believe they turn reverse rotation to the spitfire engine.
     
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Preload on the carrier was right but backlash wasn't so I adjusted the crown gear position and now have .007" backlash and Im happy with my pattern being off center towards the toe. The pattern varies slightly if you look closely but nothing can be done. Its a used gear set and even new sometimes isn't dead on. The main contact pattern is in the sweet spot and its a good contact patch with only the force of my hand causing drag. With a 3400lb car doing the work, the patch will be in the middle an larger.

    Shifter forks aligned, have to put the three covers on and its ready for the engine.


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  23. ago car nut

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    Looks like some welding on the ring gear splash shield?
     

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