84 QV - Compression results and other questions - need advice

James

1983's had two cats (just like the 1980-1982 GTSi's 2 valvers)
(and a smog pump)

1984-1985's had one cat,,,,and that concept carried onto the 328
(with no smog pump and pulse air injection instead)

looks like you found a nice one

 

I think your compression numbers are OK, I cant remember what they should be, but they seem a tad low, but that could be because the car was not cold from overnight... I would also do a leak down test.... just to be sure.

I would check the last belt change & valve job, while changing belts is fairly basic, unless you are really familliar with the engine, I would not do it myself.

The valves are a bit easier, but still not the easiest to do and to do it right you have to take the camshafts out & Measure all the shims...

Not sure about the single or dual cat's... my old 85 only had one.

As for the steering play... I dont recal that you should have that much play... the steering rack is a huge pain & expensive to replace.... I think that is normally what goes wrong... with that few miles you may be able to take up the play, but not totally sure.

does the steering shake side to side when you are driving? if so I would also look at wheel bearings, and front suspension... bushings etc... $5K to re do?? I think.

dont mean to scare you off, but Caveat Emptor!!!! now than later.

 

Check the usual places for rust - Dec '83 would be the month before Ferrari started rustproofing 308s.

Hard to say much else. It sounds like the owner is doing the inspection for you, which is a bit odd. If I lived in Denver, I might ask Dave Helms or FoD to have a look at the steering rack (and anything else). None of these cars are perfect, but you want to make sure you know the big items before agreeing on a price.

 

Don't nickel and dime the inspection. Everyone on this chat talks about the importance of a PPI. I'd recommend paying for a good look/see, not just pointed ad hoc investigation regarding the obvious things the owner has declared.

Compression/Leak down should be done under the optimum conditions as determined by the Ferrari tech. Not just while you happen to visit. (I dont know the conditions myself, but have listened to FChatters talk about the variances in compression driven my testing methods and conditions.)

It will be the best $500 or so that you can spend for the peace of mind that these purchases require -- and even at that, there will be gremlins unknown that need to be chased after purchase, so save some sorting out maintenance dollars aside, too, even if you think it needs nothing else. A little sorting does not make it a bad car, just don't spend your last nickel on the car itself otherwise it will make it a BAD EXPERIENCE.

I hope this one works out for you -- and we can hook up for a tour of the mountains.

John

 

Compression numbers don't seem too bad to me. Should be like 170-180 best case, but it depends upon all kinds of factors (like the engine being hot, the throttle plate fully open, the gas line disconnected, probably more I've forgotten). They're all close together which is the most important part. One of the cars I had PPI'd had readings much closer to 100, and even that people I asked weren't very concerned with because the numbers were well balanced between cylinders.

As to the steering, it shouldn't have that play. How do I know? Because my car has similar amounts of play in the steering, and the other cars I've driven are rock solid all the way through, no play anywhere. You can send your rack out to be rebuilt for like $400-$600, but I've heard removal/install is a pain.

 

Every mechanical repair book written in the last 40 years or more, whether its a motorcycle, a snowmobile, or a boat, lists 10% as the minimum allowance between cyclinders. Your well under that. Regardless of the engine being at optimum temperture, its still very even, and I would suspect it would tighten up a bit if the engine were good and hot right after a run. And as simple and fast as it is to do, I would do it again hot just for the piece of mind.

And James, unless your a mechanic, and even if you are, get some other eyeballs on the car. Its far to easy to let passion blind you, and a good friend or mechanic may see things you just either cant, or wont. To many times we buy somehing and bring it home, and in the dawn of the new day we see all its foibles we missed the night before. OTOH, I bought a Mercedes roadster after it failed a PPI, because it had to many small issues. I still bought it because it was the prettiest color of that car I had ever, or have ever yet seen. Sometimes ya jus gotta have it.

But just for clarity, compression tests should be done only on a hot engine, throttle fully open, good battery and all spark plugs removed. You can pull the pump fuse to keep from fouling the motor. Because we arent talking a mundane daily driver, but an engine worth tens of thousands of dollars, the compression test should be a simple pass or fail. Adding oil to to a cylinder to see if any recorded low compression reading is rings or valves is rather moot, because if an engine like this has bad valves, you must assume the rings could need works as well, so just a tired engine is always suspect, and should be valued accordingly IMHO. Once you start opening it up, you never know how far the rabbit will lead you down the hole. And for this reason, leakdown tests are equally moot IMO. There have been so many postings of leakdown tests taken by people who have no clue how it works, that unless I was doing it myself I would question it. A compression test is so simple and hard to screw up, that it should almost be the defacto test of a Ferrari engine to determine a pass/fail grade. I would only want to do a leakdown on cars with equally low compression, to determine if there is a fault accounting for the low compression. Low compression would most likely be caused by faulty valve timing, once the engine is ruled out

 

Possibly a dumb question, but does the altitude affect those numbers?

He's in Denver.

 

James,
The numbers are good and consistent. They are always lower in Colorado overall because of altitude than at sea level. I would have someone check the suspension and steering rack. Racks do go bad. Suspension rebuilds are not cheap. Sounds like it is probably a good car though. I'll give you 15K for the Boxter.

Dave

 

Hey James, those compression # are excellent, especially on a cold engine, as for leakdown, If the compression # were low then I think it would be important, remember at colorado altitude, the #'s will be lower anyway. The steering play, well remember it is a 23 or so year old car, this is to be expected. If it really bothers you have the rack re built for the $400 to $600. It sounds like a good car though, and if they were willing to do a comp. test for you as you were standing there, I think that is a good sign. I purchased a Mondial from a family in Louisville, at the time they had a 308 and a TR, I looked the 308 my self, and it was too a very nice car, but they were really not interested in selling it about 4 years ago. If by chance this is the same 308, I wouldn't worry about a thing, the Mondial was exactly as described, and I drove the hell out of the car before finally buying my F355.

Dave

 

Hey Dave, yes this is the same 308, I have decided to buy a 360 this is why I am going to sell Bella. I hope you enjoy your 355, did you sell the Mondial or do you still have it?
Robert

 

360? Nice, Yes I did sell the Mondial after buying the F355. If by chance you and James in Denver do not deal on the 308, PM me. I am interested! Please let me know as soon as possible.
Dave

 

The steering can have zero play and the rack can still be in need of a rebuild. The way we checked mine was to get it in the air and grab the front wheel, moving each to the left and right. My left wheel moved ever so slightly while the right did not. The recommendation by Tillack was that the rack be rebuilt at some point in the future, but not necessairly today.
Good luck, I hope this is the one!!!

JIM

 

This is likely to more than needing a flush. Brake trouble can be very expensive. Get it checked out.

Dave

 

James,

Sounds like you found a good one. If the price is right, don't let some needed work scare you off on it. They all need some work to bring them up to 100%. That's an expected part of buying an older car. And if you're handy and enjoy doing it, you can do a lot of the work yourself. These are not hard cars to work on.

BTW, the brakes on my '78 are as you describe, a bit mushy. I just picked up some new brake lines and Porterfield R4S pads, and will be changing them and flushing the system soon. Easy job. The old hoses tend to get soft, making the pedal feel less firm. R4S pads give a nice crisp bite for stopping.

Good luck and when you make the deal, post up a couple of pictures for us.

Regards,
Steve

 

Some of the common places are the door bottoms, base of the windshield, lower body welds and sharp corners such as found those fender louvre cutouts and behind the rear quarter louvres where water can collect (paint tends to crack at sharp corner joints due to normal body flexion - not just on Ferraris).

There's trivial surface rust (where a scratch wasn't touched up properly) and terminal cancer rust, where for example the doors are rusting from the inside out. Definitely you should distinguish between those types. I've seen rust on the '84-'85 308s as well, but not as vigorous as on the '77-'83 cars, which seem to rust in the morning dew.

EDIT: Also, U.S.-spec 308s seem to have chronic rust in the exhaust 'diaper' below the bumper. This is easy to fix and I've seen it on otherwise phenomenal cars, so don't pass a car up just because of a spot of rust there.

 

The belt change is easy, familiar with the engine or no. The cams do not come out to change the shims. In fact, you need to leave the cams in to check them. If you want to take them out to change the shims, by all means, but it is certainly not required that you do so.

 

You're also going to get different numbers from one compression tester to the next. Just because it reads 150 psi, for example, doesn't mean it's not actually 140 psi or 165 psi etc. Depends on the quality of the instrument, maybe age and handling. Certainly you should get consistent readings from repeated measurements, on the same cylinder, spaced only a short time apart.

Erich