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'85 308 steering rack play

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Doc, Jul 31, 2004.

  1. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    I have some noticeable play in the left side( passenger) of my steering rack.
    Q's: what are some sources for racks-new and rebuilt? Approx cost? I have read that there is a bushing in the left side that wears quicker than the right side. Is there a source for this bushing? Or would it be wiser to just rebuild/ replace the entire rack?
     
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  3. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    The hard part is removing and installing--this job is really a long one. TRutlands has units for sale but before buing a new one I would take yours apars and see if it can be fixed
     
  4. yfc

    yfc Karting

    Dec 23, 2003
    212
    Geneva / Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Christophe
    I also suffered from steering rack play on my F355. It has just been replaced last week.

    In my case, I have no clue what could have caused this issue? Did you managed to identify the cause of the problem on your 308 car?

    I'm wondering if warped front brake discs could dammage the steering rack. Have you had any warped discs problem on you car?

    Regards,
    Christophe.
     
  5. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    No, the discs are fine. The worn passenger side rack bushing is not all that uncommon for 308's, so I'm told.

    How much of a job is it to remove/ replace the rack on a 308? I'm half- tempted to do it myself. Are there any tricks to use or pitfalls to watch out for ?
     
  6. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    6,992
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Doc,
    Search the archives, a year or so ago one of the members posted a lot of photos of his steering rack removal & rebuild. It isn't a bad job at all if you're a pretty good mechanic.

    There are some more threads in the Old FerrariChat archives accessable from the home page.
     
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  8. yfc

    yfc Karting

    Dec 23, 2003
    212
    Geneva / Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Christophe
    I can't tell you how long it takes on a 308. But in case it may help you, on a 355, Ferrari count 9.5 hours of labor. Plus 2 hours for the geometry.

    Since both care are quite similar (rear engine, front boot, same overall conception), I would suspect it will take approximatively the same amount of time. To be confirmed ...

    Pictures of your project will be more than welcome. Good luck.

    Bye for now,
    Christophe.
     
  9. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,073
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    Not so bad on a 308/328....I had the rack replaced on my 328, I was charged around 2.5 hours (included replacing the mounting bushings)...plus the time to perform the alignment.
     
  10. yfc

    yfc Karting

    Dec 23, 2003
    212
    Geneva / Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Christophe
    So ... it seams that the 308 and the 355 cars are not as similar as I have expected. Or you are a very fast guy. Or Ferrari is charging more than needed! :) Guess which is the right one? May be all the three ...

    By the way, did you get access the steering rack from inside the front lid? Or did you unmount it from underside the car? I'm just a bit curious.

    Bye,
    Christophe
     
  11. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    THanks, as usual, for all of your input , guys. I decided to buya rebuilt unit from T Rutland. Get this, new racks have been discontinued and are no longer available. What timing--just when the older cars are finally getting some milage on them and the racks begin to wear! So, it seems that rebuilding is presently the omly alternative. It would be nice if another car's rack could fit a 308--I'd bet something could fit w some modification.
     
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  13. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    I agree. They are Cam Gears LTD racks and MGs and other british cars used these racks. I know the tie rod ends fit another car but I am not sure which one. Anyone remember????
     
  14. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    It is a very small (less than 1/2 inch), lightweight bushing. It wears. Cost me $300 - 350 to get a rack stripped, new bushing (2 - 3 inches!) pressed in. You'll also want to add rod ends, gators, mounting bits and pieces when you replace or rebuild.
    Philip
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,073
    USA
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    Hugh G. Rection
    It's a TRW rack....has anyone pinged Ferrari UK? That is where I got my new 328 rack. $800 delivered, came with new gators, new tie rod ends, etc.
     
  16. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    Dave--Ferrari UK, Super Performance, and every place I called no longer carries new racks. They've been discontinued--what a ***** !
     
  17. khayes

    khayes Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    591
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Kelly Hayes
    I replaced the steering rack in my TR this week. Parts were almost $1,200 and labor was about $500 including an alignment. The car really does handle much better now. The bushings were replaced about a year ago so everything is nice and tight again. No more "bumps" in the steering wheel when I pull out of my drive way now. The most noticable improvement is from bringing up the air pressure in the front tires again. This makes the steering at slow speeds in parking lots much easier. No power steering in the beast.
     
  18. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    Every 308 rack I have seen has been a Cam Gears LTD.
    Even the one Dave jones posted on the other site was a Cam Gears LTD rack.
    Why did you get a TRW rack? I haven't seen one on a 308. Even my 85' has a cam gears ltd.
     
  19. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,073
    USA
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    Hugh G. Rection
    I may have jumped to conclusions on that....the 328 rack is a TRW....and it was posted previously that the 328 and 308 racks were the same brand, just slightly different in certain specs...my apologies if this is incorrect.
     
  20. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    6,992
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Came up in a thread a while ago, Think it was claimed a Mini-Cooper used the same rack.

    Have sort of been figuring on seeing if an 2nd gen. Rx-7 rack could be adapted if my rack ever went on me. Nice rugged racks with a large base to keep parts available.
     
  21. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 7, 2002
    9,884
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Barry Wolinsky
    That's true, Bill. I decided to have all my original suspension bushings changed on my 1976 GTB this spring. My steering rack also had a bit of play on the passenger side. I had the rack rebuild done (both sides) for $450. I can't comment on hours of labor as the entire suspension was done along with alignment. Classic Coach, here in New Jersey, did the service. You'll find an improvement after the rebuild, as I did.

    Barry
     
  22. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,236
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley

    Dave,

    Cam Gears Ltd was a division of TRW later known as TRW Cam Gears. It is now TRW Steering Systems LTD. So the change is just in the company name, not the racks themselves.

    Interesting note: I discovered this is the exact same steering rack as in my Pantera. For years, the Pantera community has been rebuilding these racks themselves. Very common tech session item. About $50 in parts if you don't do the boots, another $60 or so if you do the boots too. Easy Saturday morning project. I'm in the process of rebuilding mine right now. I'll post pictures if there is any interest by the "do it yourselfers"

    Rick
     
  23. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    15,978
    Savannah
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    I NEED A JOB

    please post pics! :)
     
  24. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    Where do the Pantera guys get their parts from?
     
  25. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    31,567
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    About 10 yrs ago my 308 had a similar rack problem. There are shops which rebuild these with bronze bushings I believe instead of the original plastic ones.The cost for it was about $ 200. The instalation if memory serves me correct was about 3 Hrs. Nothing too complex.
     
  26. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    Just a bit of feedback--I got a rack from T Rutland and it's been fine. There was some talk about rebuilt racks been iffy. This one was OK.
     
  27. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    Superformance offer std and quick rack and pinions to put into your own racks. The bearings and seals are available from most outlets, and I get bronze bushes made at a local machine shop from a simple sketch I have.

    Takes about 8 hours to remove your rack, replace the seals, boots and bearings and fit new bronze bush and rebuild it, then fit it and set the toe.

    The bush part is slightly fiddly, as you need to drill out 3 rivets and pull the end off the housing to access the area. Then remove the little grub screw and use a slide hammer to extract the old bush....Which is a steel tube with plastic lining and usually breaks up.

    If the inner tie rod ball sockets are damaged or excessively worn, then you're into problems, but they are adjustable to a small degree.

    The Right hand drive 308 rack is exactly the same as a left hand drive Austin Allegro if that means anything to anyone!! But a Mini one is fine too except the tie rods are too short...again Left Hand drive though, not a UK Right hand drive...that'll make the steering go the wrong way which would be fun.

    I'm not sure if a Right hand drive Mini/Allegro rack will fit a LHD 308, but probably.
     
  28. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,236
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley
    Reaper,

    I've not yet completed the restore/rebuild of the rack. There are two ways it can be done... In the car where you just add the new bronze bushing or out of the car where you rebuild the rack and replace the seals. If you just add the new bushing that takes about 2-3 hours. I'm doing the latter and I'm waiting on a response from a gent in England who used to work for Cam Gears Ltd before I progress any further. If you'd like to follow the progress, look for the "Steering - Ferrari" album at:

    http://photos.yahoo.com/moseleya@pacbell.net

    Rick
     

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