85 refresh time (brakes, suspension, steering, etc.) | FerrariChat
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85 refresh time (brakes, suspension, steering, etc.)

Discussion in '308/328' started by redline76, Nov 17, 2023.

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  1. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
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    Warren V
    #1 redline76, Nov 17, 2023
    Hi all,

    Been a minute since i last posted :p

    It's time for my '85 GTS to get some long overdue love. 39K on the clock and looks great but everthing is original, not a good thing.

    It's currently up on jack stands getting the rear calipers rebuilt (shoutout to Caliper HQ in Long Beach CA, these guys know what they're doing) and per the contagious Shipwrights Disease(TM) I'm going to refresh a bunch of other stuff as well, because, well, once I'm there...:p

    Regarding A-arm bushing suppliers:

    Going with OEM-style bushings and there's clearly some options:
    1) Maseratisource is the cheapest by far but is the quality there? I read an older post that the shells are thinner than the OEM units
    2) Superformance UK is a known quantity but time/cost to ship from the UK to the US is making me look at other options
    3) Ferrari Parts Exchange which is Ferrparts uses Superformance's exact online template including images and descriptions. They are stateside but are they selling the same parts or did they just rip the Superformance site?
    4) Do I bother with the outer bushings? Maybe just replace the thrust washers?

    I've read countless threads and have literally 60 tabs open on my browser but still haven't pulled the trigger.

    Regarding shocks:

    40K on mine- they're dirty with whatever that crap black overspray was when they coated the chassis but feel fine. I'd like it lower and maybe a bit firmer but not much.
    1) Clean, change bushings and find someone to machine lower perches
    2) Clean, change bushings and install Superformance/Ferrparts uprated springs
    2) GAZ coilovers

    (I like originality but these are not that hard to change out, hence the coilover consideration)

    Not doing QA-1s
    Not doing urethane bushings

    Regarding swaybars:
    1) Clean and repaint originals
    2) Superformance.Ferrparts uprated swaybars (they say they're for GTB but I have a noodly GTS)

    Regarding steering rack and tie rod ends:
    Mine has quite a bit of play on center but generally works well. Stiff as hell but I figured that's a manual rack for ya.
    1) Buy A Part new rack (cheap and so far no negative reviews)
    2) Ball joints/tie rod ends from maseratisource or Superformance/Ferrparts

    Regarding Master Cylinder:
    Pedal feel has always been firm but stopped at a light the pedal sinks a bit, gradually. Chalking this up to seals in the MC so the plan is to strip it down and try the Superformance/Ferrparts 4 seal kit if no pitting or corrosion is evident. Otherwise, I'll just get the Superformance/Ferrparts master.


    Doing other stuff like power door locks, window refurb, door check pin and so on but this is the most immediate punch list since so much has to be ordered.

    Sorry for the long winded post- I've studied all the options for the past two weeks and I need to end my paralysis through analysis :p

    LMK your opinions based on experience please and if I should bother documenting the work here :)

    Cheers,

    Warren.
     
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  2. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    #2 ginoBBi512, Nov 18, 2023
    I did my suspension along with so much other refreshing. I used all new OEM Konis which I bought from Ferr Parts. I had 100,000 miles on the original suspension. I also replaced all my motor mounts as well. You might want to consider changing your motor mounts too, it made a bigger improvement in my car than replacing all the shocks and bushings. I also used all OEM bushings, the suspension in these 3 x 8s are incredible to say the least, thats my experience with my 89 328 GTS . I had my entire AC system rebuilt as well , compressor, lines etc..My alternator and starter lasted about 97,000 miles until I had to replace them both. You also might want to check your clutch and accelerator cables as well, I had both of mine replaced after the clutch cable snapped at about 95,000 miles.

    Big G
     
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  3. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    #3 moysiuan, Nov 18, 2023
    How did you re do the ac compressor lines, is there an R134 compatible hose in there now, or did you use OEM hoses and still use the old freon?
     
  4. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    #4 ginoBBi512, Nov 18, 2023

    I had to switch all the hoses to new R134 and use all new freon. The entire system is all new for R134 .

    G
     
  5. Dockboy

    Dockboy Formula Junior
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    #5 Dockboy, Nov 18, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
    I just did most of this about 2 yrs ago.

    Maseratisource on ebay for bushings/tierods/ball joints. All great quality, shell thickness is just fine.

    https://www.ebay.com/str/maseratisource

    You have to take the Upper & Lower Outer Rear Wishbone Bush Assy apart to do the job anyway, so you might as well change them also. I got them from Superformance. Not cheap, but it's all apart anyway!


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Upper & Lower Outer Rear Wishbone Bush Assy. Set
    Complete set for one hub (4 complete bush assemblies)
    Zinc plated
    (308: All)Each complete bush (4 per set) includes 1 of each of:
    109902 (107438), 105342 (641216), 101009 (600771), 100796 (94943),
    109905 (105339), 100787 (101315, 600750, 660826),
    105340 (100786, 601478, 601684), 105343 (641217), 105341 (601685). 30808091
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    £166.15

    While you are at Superformance, you should pickup the shock bush press tool. Invaluable when changing the shock bushings and also works great for pressing in/out some of the a-arm bushings!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Shock Absorber Bush 42mm Press Tool
    (308: All) BRT-02
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    £68.00

    I also ground down a 35mm socket that helps with pressing in a-arm bushings. fits over the collar and between the a-arm flanges.


    Sway bars just clean/paint and new bushings (Superformance)

    Get the $205 steering rack from ebay. Perfect fit and works great! Don't forget new mounting bushings (Superformance)

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/185763555231?epid=907595054&hash=item2b405ee79f:g:lZQAAOSwxG1j3th7&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA0H6qbyrGT3tpwWuOVvQJKWBt0nncXbyDXV3qXyNMm6AeE5n4PwgqWGjIQGQLbRM384IyQBZTb6azB+wuqgERtLW2i0nSAEa+IK9WJ/QmD34lAX8n+LfKHIhctAsXr+57h2YgLgmGHyrYe41VleZcqbvYPvvmrWIhh7PeakyzUh3raFZYa9RA52a4Mhb6HqOEAlZmxstDiT8bJ3HbQep2Ap1viB0ZlRsfG8sZR4RjvTcbHbZzc3es5/xcAWFSE8f/lh5o1XWX42gqbjLPybus/+o=|tkp:Bk9SR6DmlrP8Yg
     

    Attached Files:

  6. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
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    Warren V
    #6 redline76, Nov 18, 2023
     
  7. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

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    Warren V
    #7 redline76, Nov 18, 2023
    Great advice on the motor mounts; hadn't considered those. I was going to order those cables as well, but of course that means a full refresh of the pedal box :)
     
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  8. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #8 smg2, Nov 18, 2023
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  9. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2005
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    #9 PAP 348, Nov 18, 2023
    Sounds like a bit of a project here Warren, looking forward to seeing pics as you go along mate. :D
     
  10. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    #10 mixedgas, Nov 19, 2023
    Why no love for the QA1 / energy suspension route? Genuinely curious as I'm planning a suspension refresh on my 85 soon. Thanks
     
  11. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
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    Warren V
    #11 redline76, Nov 19, 2023
    I'll answer both the bushing and shock questions in one reply:

    1) re: poly bushings- The cumulative experience seems to point to the stock bonded rubber bushings providing the following benefits:
    - Additional spring rate due to the flex of the rigidly-mounted bushing which was part of the original suspension design
    -Potential for noise using poly bushings, especially in colder weather. Even graphite-impregnated bushings seems to suffer from this over time
    -Little give with poly which transmits additional forces to chassis (additional harshness)
    -Movement of the ploy within the bushing shell without periodic lubrication feels like it would introduce friction, possibly wear over time

    2) re: QA-1- This is not a turnkey solution; one has to gather all the requisite parts which, when added up, are actually not that inexpensive. The GAZ solution was designed as a complete drop-in unit including bushings and ostensibly was tuned dynamically for the 308. They're reasonably priced too. Stock Konis are no longer $800/set and I honestly don't know if they're much better than my 40K originals. I like the idea of lowered perches but I gotta figure out how to convert Steve's drawings to a CAD file to have an online vendor like Xometry or eMachineshop make them for me :)

    Cheers,

    Warren.
     
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  12. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
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    Warren V
    #12 redline76, Nov 19, 2023
    Cheers!

    I haven't wrenched in a good long while but recently changing the sprockets and chain on my Triumph Sprint ST gave me false confidence to tackle the 308 when I discovered the rear driver's side caliper was leaking all over the floor (while ruining the inner wheel finish in the process).

    Up on jackstands, and after reading Birdman's guide among others on how to remove, the calipers came off to get rebuilt.

    Now it's time to get serious :p

    Stay tuned...
     
  13. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula 3

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    #13 Sergio Tavares, Nov 19, 2023
    Don't forget to change the wheel bearings, ferrariparts exchang has them on sale.

    Yes ferrari parts exchange sells superformance parts stateside and you won't have $175 shipping costs from UK and you can return easily.

    MaseratiParts buys bushings from David Castelhano is a rumour
     
  14. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
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    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    #14 Brian A, Nov 19, 2023
    When I was deciding about bushings for my suspension rebuild, I quizzed Superformance about their rubber bushings. They said that they had spec’ed a stiffer rubber than factory. They thought they were quite good and were quite proud of them. You might give them a call to talk.
     
  15. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    #15 mixedgas, Nov 19, 2023
    Thank you for the feedback! I once had a vintage Volvo with squeaky bushings (poly) and it drove me MAD!

    One hang-up I have about the stock bushings is the need to preload them (correct?). That isn't something I've done before and I'm sure I could figure it out, but is a "thing" to sort out. Also, the I understand stock bushings requires access to a welder, which is again something I could figure out, but is another "thing".

    Thanks again,
    Mike
     
  16. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    #16 mixedgas, Nov 19, 2023
    Also curious what feedback you'll get about the steering rack. I understand there is a 'quick rack' also available, but not sure the benefits outweigh the costs. There are certainly a lot of posts about it, but I like to fish around for current opinions. Cheers
     
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  17. bitsobrits

    bitsobrits Formula Junior
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    #17 bitsobrits, Nov 19, 2023
    Basically, you don’t fully tighten the bolts/nuts holding the bushings in place until the car is sitting on the ground and the suspension has been settled (rolled a couple of car lengths). Easy enough.
     
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  18. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
    #18 BrockBenson, Nov 19, 2023
    Hi Warren,

    I did the same as what you are up to a couple of years back. My 84 QV had just hit 100,000m and as I only became the own a few years before, was unsure of what had been replaced over the years. Here is what I did and where I sources the parts:

    1. all rubber bushes from MASERATISOURCE
    2. upper rear bearings from SUPERFORMANCE
    3. sway bar bushings from SUPERFORMANCE
    4. I already had NICK FORZA coilovers (from previous owner) but they were dead inside. Too expensive to rebuild so bought new ones from Aldan America. I'm pretty sure that's who supplies them to NF.
    5. Steering rack was perfect, so no work there.
    6. Also replaced the boots on the half shafts and zinc plated all the hardware.

    Hope that helps a little.

    BB
     
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  19. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 PAP 348, Nov 19, 2023
    Sweet man, piece of piss for a man like you. :D
     
  20. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 PAP 348, Nov 19, 2023
    I have heard of and seen pics of people fitting electric steering modifications to these old 308s in the past also which are very good from what they tell me.
     
  21. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
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    Warren V
    #21 redline76, Nov 19, 2023
    I'll defer to someone who actually did it but it's sold as just the rack- it has to be retrofitted to a complete rack. At the price of the all parts rack, I'm inclined to forgo it as I've read some not-so-great stories about rebuilt racks. Would be cool, but not in the cards right now.
     
  22. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
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    #22 redline76, Nov 19, 2023
    Perfect, I think that's the path I'm on. Much appreciate the input!
     
  23. redline76

    redline76 Formula Junior

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    #23 redline76, Nov 19, 2023
    ...and that's how you'll end up seeing a listing in 6 months: "85 308 QV Project For Sale: Must Complete To Remove From Owner's Garage"
     
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  24. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 PAP 348, Nov 20, 2023
    Hahaha!! Let me know when this happens please. :oops::oops:
     
  25. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    #25 mixedgas, Nov 20, 2023
    For better or worse, and adding for posterity's sake in case helpful to anyone, this is what the Volvo racing guys ended up using on poly bushings to help with incessant squeaking. Goes on like hot, runny chewing gum. Gave many quit miles when I've used it before on personal cars.

    Great thread, thanks all for sharing knowledge! -Mike

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