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'86 328 won't start - help needed

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Gaspar, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. Gaspar

    Gaspar Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    5
    I changed out the stereo head unit in my 328 today and now the car won't start. Here's what I know so far:
    --car is in heated garage and had no hot/cold starting problems before the stereo swap
    --I flipped down the passenger footwell panel and moved fuse/relay panel to get to old wiring (did I knock something loose?)
    --Disconnected harnesses to fuse panel and in footwell - little/no corrosion. Reconnected - no change.
    --no blown fuses
    --starter turns fine - battery strong
    --grounded out plug wire and have spark
    --pulled two plugs - wet with gas
    --pulled off large hose going from air filter housing to intake - flapper valve wet with gas
    --Swapped key switch, fuel pump, and fuel delivery pump starting relays - no effect
    --All electrical equipment functional (lights, instruments, etc.)

    Any suggestions greatly appreciated to keep the troubleshooting moving forward!
    Gaspar
     
  2. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jul 30, 2001
    22,064
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim E
    I had this exact problem a month ago. It was a burned connector in the board where the fuel pump relay attached. Even if would've changed the relay, the contact was bad. Check there.
     
  3. Gaspar

    Gaspar Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    5
    Thanks for the prompt reply - Good suggestion - I'm on my way to check. But how could I get gas on the plugs and in the intake if the relay wasn't functioning?
     
  4. Gaspar

    Gaspar Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    5
    Fuel relay appears satisfactory. I traced the fuel pump power line to a brown wire which was energized when I placed the key in the "accessory" position.

    At the moment I'm focusing (erroneously?) on the "fuel injection delivery pump starting relay" - lower-left corner (labeled S in the wiring diagram).

    Yes, I've swapped relays - I'm more concerned with a bad connection somewhere in the circuit.

    Thoughts?
     
  5. rudy

    rudy Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2004
    360
    Los Angeles California
    Full Name:
    Rudy Hassen
    Did you have the battery disconnected during the stereo swap? Sounds like you fried something. Are you getting spark?
     
  6. Gaspar

    Gaspar Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    5
    Hi Rudy. Yes, I had the battery disconnected during the swap. Yes, I am getting spark. That was my first check since it was behaving like it had no spark (meaning it cranked strong but had NO ignition, no cough, no sputter).
    I pulled plugs 1 and 4, grounded to the engine block, and had my wife crank the engine. Got spark on both wires. That's what made me think of fuel as the culprit. After numerous short cranks (after trying different things) I pulled plugs 1 and 4 and found them wet with gas. Intake flapper also wet. I'm interpreting that to mean that the cold start injector in the intake is working.

    I'm wondering if I'm not getting the injectors themselves to function. Yes, I have power to the fuel pump. But I haven't found a good way to check on the fuel delivery circuit.

    ANY SUGGESTIONS to verify the fuel delivery system is working (downstream of the fuel pump)?

    Thanks again,
    Gaspar
     
  7. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    sounds as though you are flooded.
    if you have spark and fuel it should run. so take out plugs turn motor over a few times and replace w/new plugs. it should light up.also if plugs are wet the injectors are probably ok.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,262
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Gaspar -- To do a real functional pressure test, you would need to get the appropriate K-Jet pressure gauge + adapter (e.g., from JCWhitney) and measure directly at the proper port on the fuel distributor while running the fuel pump -- BUT I don't like your comment that "I traced the fuel pump power line to a brown wire which was energized when I placed the key in the "accessory" position" as being a meaningful check/test for the fuel pump electrics. The fuel pump should only run in 2 states:

    1. with the ignition key in the "on" position and the crankshaft/flywheel turning, or

    2. with the ignition key in the "start" position and the starter solenoid closed.

    IMO, the best overall electrical functional test for the K/KE fuel pump is to remove the fuel pump relay from its socket and then use a jumper wire to connect the 30 female socket (30 is the vertical upper center position) to the 87 female socket (87 is the bottom horizontal position) -- the numbers 30, 87, 85, 86 should be molded on the bottom of the relay itself so you can double-check the positions.

    The 30 socket should always be +12V (even with ignition key "off"). The 87 socket eventually connects to the "+" terminal on the fuel pump. With the jumper installed you should be able to hear the fuel pump running. IMO, check/test these things first before resorting to the pressure measurement.
     
  9. Gaspar

    Gaspar Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    5
    Steve, You are correct - I misspoke. I had power to the fuel pump with the key in the START position (engine cranking).

    Here's the update -
    1. I pulled all eight plugs - all were black and wet with gas. Wire brushed all and cleaned with "carb cleaner"
    2. Disabled ignition and fuel circuits and cranked engine for a couple of seconds.
    3. Reinstalled plugs. Connected coils to distributors.
    4. I had my wife crank the engine to verify spark. Yes, I have spark... and the engine fired a couple of times. At this point, I still had the fuel relay and fuse REMOVED, so I'm guessing the detonation I experienced was residual gas in the cylinders?
    5. Anyway, so I replaced the fuel relay and fuse. Engine cranked strong, one or two isolated detonations, and STRONG raw gas smell.
    6. Pulled #1 plug and it is wet with gas.

    I have spark. I have fuel. Isolated firings.
     
  10. pnorman

    pnorman Rookie

    Dec 30, 2003
    47
    I'm experiencing the same problem your having with a FI 308 engine. I was backing the car up on ramps to change the oil,stalled the car and have not been able to get it started. I have fuel and spark and the plugs get real wet. I've cleaned the plugs, used other plugs and nothing. I don't believe that the FI system could go off based on one isolated incident. Please keep me posted...Patrick
     

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