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86 328 won't start

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by LUCH, Jul 11, 2010.

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  1. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
    30
    Massachusetts
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    Karl
    #1 LUCH, Jul 11, 2010
    Was driving around for a few days with AC on , which by the way doesn't work very well and never use it, (but that's another story) and I went to put the car away later and it just died. Cranked over like no tomorrow but nothing. I didn't here the furl pump or modulator...no buzzing. I checked the fuses and found a blown fuse for AC compressor, changed it , but still no dice. A friend with the same car as mine said to check the fuse on the relay for the jetronic unit in the right rear of the trunk. It was good, but maybe the relay is bad. Any thoughts. Just to preface all this, mechanically I'll go head to head with anyone...but electrically the Geico cavemen have it all over me.

    Thanks for any help,
    LUCH...dead in the water...er road
     
  2. Drew_4RE

    Drew_4RE Formula 3
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    #2 Drew_4RE, Jul 11, 2010
    I've been stranded with a some what similar issue. There is wiring under a panel hidden behind the footwell of the passenger side. Open it up and see if one of the connections on the multi pin connector looks like it's melted. That goes the the fuel pump...

    If it's f'd up, try cleaning and replacing. There are more detailed threads on this in the 328 section.
     
  3. mtmilam

    mtmilam Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2009
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    Mark Milam
    #3 mtmilam, Jul 11, 2010
    Swapping out another relay of the same kind (part number). Also make sure that relay is good. I didn't check and spend two hours trouble shooting all because I replaced the relay with another Bad one.....:D once I put the good relay in .....on came the whirling pump
     
  4. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #4 Robz328, Jul 11, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
    Fuel pump relay is under the dash, not the passenger footrest. Relays under footrest are generally for heating and AC (along with the seatbelt alarm).

    It's a good idea to carry replacement relays and fuses in the trunk. Have all tree available.
     
  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    #5 spirot, Jul 11, 2010
    yes and no... there arent any relays there, but harnness connectors are there, frequently you get a burnned out connection... I would check that and see if there is a cracked wire that has been burned. - easy to tell, the bad connection will be blacked out.
     
  6. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,345
    #6 Paul_308, Jul 11, 2010
  7. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
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    #7 KKRace, Jul 11, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  8. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Massachusetts
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    Karl
    #8 LUCH, Jul 12, 2010
    Thanks for the replies . I will proceed from here and let you know what I find.

    LUCH
     
  9. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #9 Robz328, Jul 12, 2010
    I was referring to relay U in Paul's pic from the manual. Also, relay R is for the fuel pump. Both are 113's

    Could also need to clean the blue plug on the K-Jet..and other connectors (I do believe Drew is correct that there are connectors for the fuel pump ckt under the footrest; there are others under the console/tunnel).
     
  10. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #10 Robz328, Jul 12, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  11. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    #11 CliffBeer, Jul 12, 2010
    Karl, I recently had to replace that fused relay in the trunk on my neighbors 328. Similar sympoms as you're experiencing. The fuse was not blown, the relay itself had just died. I replaced the relay with one from Daniel at RicambiAmerican ($140) et viola, she runs like a top. To test the relay you can jumper the socket and see if you get some life at the fuel pump, frequency valve, etc while cranking. Good luck!
     
  12. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    #12 GatorFL, Jul 13, 2010
    Had a similar issue, it turned out to be the "all keys" relay. At this point spend a couple hundred $ and replace them all thats what I did.
     
  13. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

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    Karl
    #13 LUCH, Jul 13, 2010
    Well,

    This is such a great site. So much info. I haven't had much time to check anything much yet but I'm getting there. As I stated before ,I'm an electrical moron., so please bear with me. When you say jumper a connection, I really don't know how to do that. What wires or terminals or what? A friend told me to jump the 2 wires on the connector that I pulled the relay off and the piece of copper I use turned cherry red almost instantly. I burned my finger pulling it out. So like I said , mechanically yes...electrically no! So I will proceed with caution.
    I'll try to post pictures of of what I'm checking so I don't destroy anything.

    thanks'
    Luch
     
  14. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    #14 KKRace, Jul 13, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
    If you go to the threads I posted the links to I think I included pics of how I jumpered the relays. Basically take a short piece of wire at least as big around as the other wires in the area and remove the relay and push the ends of the wire into the correct locations as shown in the pics. If you are nervous about doing the jumpers you can still perform some of the other tests described in my posts.
     
  15. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

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    #15 CliffBeer, Jul 13, 2010
    Karl,

    Jumper the plug socket holes number 30 and 87 I believe - take a look here for specific details on how to do this: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283695 Best to be careful about where you're putting the jumper wire.

    Good luck!
     
  16. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

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    #16 LUCH, Jul 17, 2010
    Ok,

    Here's the deal. I did everything -I think- I was told. I checked all fuses, and relays. I swapped working relays with the ones I suspected were bad, but no dice. I checked the fuse one the protection relay for the Jetronic unit and it was good. So I jumped the terminals on the connector for the relay (80 & 37) and got the buzzing which I didn't have before. So does that mean the relay is bad, or are there more tests. If bad, where can you get one, other than from a Ferrari dealer. I know Ferrari doesn't make them so there must be a source.

    Thanks again,
    Karl
     
  17. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    #17 KKRace, Jul 21, 2010
    If you check the links I posted there are wiring diagrams and also a list of which relays you can swap to check things out. Try swaping out the relay with one of the other compatible ones. I could tell you more but you didn't say which relay you jumpered?
     
  18. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

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    #18 LUCH, Jul 21, 2010
    Thanks for the response,

    The relay I jumped was the protection relay with the 10A fuse on the Jetronic board in the right rear of the car. I also just checked for power to the fuel pump by removing the blue connector on the fuel distributor an turning the key on. No voltage. However there is voltage to that connector.

    Thanks,
    Karl
     
  19. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    #19 KKRace, Jul 21, 2010
    Go to the links I posted and there is a picture of the relay in the dash you should try to jumper. You should also look at the picture of the floor board in the passenger footwell and check for the problem shown in the picture.
     
  20. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
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    #20 LUCH, Jul 21, 2010
    I ran 12v to the fuel pump and it runs fine. The relays all seem to be good. But no voltage at the pump. Could it be the protection relay on the Jetronic board? Not sure of it's function. Or maybe just a bad wire or ground.
     
  21. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
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    #21 LUCH, Jul 21, 2010
    Sometimes things happen that we aren't really sure about, and maybe there's a reason, don't know. Well anyway I was checking the voltage across the connector for the fuel pump relay - terminal 30 to ground - checking for 12v. Nothing, So I turned the key and the car started.????? Replaced the relay and reconnected the plug for the fuel cut-off on the fuel distributor and the car runs fine. Must have been a loose wire, bad contact, or something. But it runs fine now. I'll try again in the morning. Who'd a known!

    Anyway thanks for all the help,
    Karl

    I'll let ya know if it's still running in a few days
     
  22. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
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    #22 GatorFL, Jul 21, 2010
    probably the relay is going bad
     
  23. Drew_4RE

    Drew_4RE Formula 3
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    #23 Drew_4RE, Jul 21, 2010
    did you check the wiring under the passenger foot well?
     
  24. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Karl
    #24 LUCH, Jul 21, 2010
    Yes, I checked the wiring under the floor. I didn't see anything that jumped out at me but I will check that one connector on the passenger floor panel that commonly has a problem on one of the pins.
     
  25. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
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    #25 KKRace, Jul 22, 2010
    Look for the discoloring I showed in the pic. If it's starting to turn brown near that pin it means you have or had a bad connection. While you are there you should clean it anyway.
     
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