86 TR Won't Idle | Page 2 | FerrariChat

86 TR Won't Idle

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by jim94-348, Aug 8, 2021.

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  1. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #26 Steve Magnusson, Aug 31, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
    Can't believe the difficulty you're having -- I just bought a cheapy "Bosch CIS Pressure Tester" off Amazon, and it had it (but that was ~15 years ago). Mine is Star Products TU-14, but I don't see it on Amazon (but you could do some internet searching).

    This one looks hopeful for M8 x 1:

    https://www.amazon.com/WENBIAO-0-140PSI-Injector-Injection-Pressure/dp/B092H1GSSX/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=bosch+cis+fuel+pressure+tester+TU-14&qid=1630426967&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUThHNDc2QlBWWVk3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTI5NjE5UEhEQUlTM05WTjhaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4OTQ4ODgxWTJHMTlMMklZNUJOJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

    And this more expensive one (which has the valving to measure supply and control pressure on K-Jet):

    https://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-3420-Compatible-Injection/dp/B008FJXA3M/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=bosch+cis+fuel+pressure+tester&qid=1630427302&sr=8-5

    (but don't know for sure about either)

    Another one very similar to what I have:

    https://www.toolsource.com/fuel-injection-test-sets-c-1321_182_184/cis-kjetronic-fuel-injection-tester-p-91537.html
     
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  2. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    Greenville, NC
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    I bought the first one. It has the M8 and it fits but the other side of the M8 does not fit anything to screw the gage into. I went to a fitting supply house and all they had was a 90 and it hits the pipe under the connection. I am not sure why you would sell a kit that nothing connects to?
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Probably safest (although more expensive) to buy a kit that is specifically "Bosch CIS" and has the valve and branched hoses like the other two.
     
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  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    why not just go to a machine shop and let 1 adapter make for you. could be not so expensive
    why make it so complicated when you already have the gauge, the hose, so you only need an adapter
    sorry, but I not understand your handling
     
  5. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Joe
  6. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
    971
    Greenville, NC
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    Thanks guys. I ordered the one like Steve has. Hopefully I can get it by Saturday and test it this weekend. I hate having a car down.
     
  7. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    Greenville, NC
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    I finally got a gauge in that allowed me to check the fuel pressure. The right hand pump is 5.6 bar and immediately drops to 2.5 bar when the pump is cut off and it took several minutes to completely bleed down.

    The left hand pump and the passenger side KE Jetronic has 0 bar with the pump running. I can hear the pump running but the gauge doesn't move.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Good, but not great -- should be at least 2.6 bar for 20 minutes after pump shutoff. Being 2.5 bar (instead of 2.6 bar) isn't a concern, but several minutes to go to zero isn't right (but a minor issue).

    At least you have identified what needs to be fixed ;). Can't recall anyone reporting that same symptom.
     
  9. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    So you think it is the pump and not a filter or could it be something clogged up? I am getting ready to leave for the FCA Broadmoor and I have another car on my lift so I can't get to it until I get back.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #35 Steve Magnusson, Sep 4, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
    Could be a lot of suspects: bad pump (although a normal running sound is a positive sign for the pump itself), a blockage somewhere in the inlet path (tank strainer) or outlet path (filter or a kinked line), failed pressure regulator, or whatever -- please let us know what you find when you have a chance to investigate.

    Your original observation (of one airflow plate being barely open and the other open a lot) matches with the barely open one being correct and the one being far more open as having zero fuel pressure -- as with no fuel pressure working on the FD plunger, the air being drawn into the engine would easily deflect the airflow plate on the dead bank an excessive amount.
     
  11. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Where did you perform your pressure test at? The top of the Fuel Distributor? I'd move further down the line, to the output of the fuel filter, then the output of the accumulator. If zero after the accumulator, then test the intake side of the accumulator. If zero from there, then yes it's a blockage in the tank or the pump.
     
  12. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    Okay, I finally got the 575, my X5 and my son's M3 running now I have a free to get back on the TR. I started at the right side fuel filter and no fuel. I kept move backwards and I have no fuel coming out of the fuel pump on the output side. When I jump the pump out it comes on but no fuel which makes me think something is blocking the feedline or it is in the pump.. I a half a tank of gas so I am not crazy about draining it out if there is an easier way. I thought ai would check first. Any guidance here would be appreciated.
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Definitely don't try draining that much gas at one time -- way too dangerous. I would use the return line from the pressure regulator going back to the tank, from the side with the working fuel pump, to pump (i.e., jump the working fuel pump relay) a reasonable quantity (like 1/2 a gallon) into a reasonable container and then pour that into one of your other vehicles (and repeat until very near empty). Then drain the last bit.
     
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  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Forgot to add: don't try removing the rubber return line from the nipple on the tank -- that's too much work. Disconnect the other end of the rubber line from the metal line coming from the pressure regulator, then add your own longer rubber line to the metal line so you can set your container on the ground outside the chassis.
     
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  15. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    So I am finally back on this after my fiasco with the 575 and a fan that came from the factory running backwards. How is that for a quality check? Anyway, I drained the fuel. I broke the line that feeds the KE Jetronic, pulled the braided hose back through the runners, put the line into a 5 gallon gas tank and jumpered the fuel pump on the good side. It worked like a charm and drained the tank. I'll send pictures in a minute. I then removed the fuel pump with almost no gas left in the pump and I put a 5 gallon bucket under it to drain into. No spills and everything went perfectly.

    Now, I don't see any debris in the pump. It was turning on but I wasn't getting any fuel to the KE system. I'm planning to replace the pump. Te car only has 24k on it. Should I replace both pumps? Any feedback on anything else I should check while I have it apart? I was thinking about trying to see if it will pump water from a bucket. I have a battery I can use.

    Anyone have experience with this model pump? https://www.ebay.com/itm/164197712624?hash=item263af242f0:g:pzYAAOSwpoJg2jjy
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    quantum pump in europe are rare. if no china junk I would try this pump, but replace just both pumps. now it is only a little more work, later much more work.
    I read lifetime warranty. the selelr has more than 65.000 positive feedback. so I see no problem then
    but would be good to know the technical datas from this pump: so max. ltr/minute ( or gal/min ) at what pressure
     
  17. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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  18. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    Greenville, NC
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    Jim
    Besides replacing the pump, is there anything else I should check while I have it all apart?
     
  19. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    may be the fuel lines, and replace the 2 big hoses from the tanks to the pumps ( when you are just there )
     
  20. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    Greenville, NC
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    I ended up getting the TRE fuel pumps instead of the ones above. I could not get a complete answer from quantum on the inlet side of the pump. The TRE came in and dropped in. The inlet is 1/2" vs the metric on the old pump. I replaced the inlet rubber hose anyway so the new 1/2" hose fit on both ends. I checked the pressure of the pumps since I already had it apart. It was 5.6 bar. I put everything back together and the car started up perfectly. The pumps make no noise. I mean when I jumped them out to see what the pressure was I didn't know they were on.

    Fuel Pump Link: https://treperformance.com/i-7546910-ferrari-testarossa-oem-replacement-fuel-pump-1986-1988.html $89.99 each

    The car used to start up slowly. I have read that a TR turns over building compression but now it starts up immediately. I'm thinking of buying two more pumps and doing the other TR that I have. I'm sure it is better for the electrical board. I just wish I had a current probe so I see what the current drop was from the old one to the new one. I'm still not sure why one pump being out would keep the car from idling. Usually they will still run on 6 cylinders but it is running so I am not going to complain.
     

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