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87 tr exhaust

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 2mmuch, May 26, 2004.

  1. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Luigi
    I own an 87tr and am thinking of changing my exhaust system. I talked to alot of people here in town about having a custom exhaust made. "A lot of pro race car builders". They all tell me the same thing. Exhaust is a critical thing on a Ferrari. You shouldn't just put any home made system on because the balance of exhaust works on a sign curve. The timing of when it come out of the tail pipes is timed with the next piston firing. If they just bend somting up and through on a couple of mufflers it could hurt more then do good. At high rpm's if you don't have the proper exhaust balance you create an in balanced engine. "Cause back fire and power lose at some rpm's". I do believe these guys because I see the engines they build some are for Nascar. So now I ask my fellow F-Car drivers. Is tubi with or with out cat's my only option or is there other muffler system out there for a TR that make your car sound great. You know that sound. The one that makes people look to see whats coming down the street.

    Thanks Lou
     
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  3. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Lou,
    I have an 86TR with a Borla exhaust, with no cats. The car had to be balanced and tuned to accept but runs strong and sweet. I have had it on now for about 5 yrs, and have the orginal in the garage just because...I tried the tubi and didnt like the sound as much...sounded abit muffled..like it had a cough/cold and tinny. The borla is very throaty...everyone thats heard it loves the sound, similar to a harely d sound. I have had zero problems to date. But yes, once you change exhaust someone very knowledgeable needs to set it up properly. I went back twice to get it tweeked, but its been perfect every since. Hope this helps.
     
  4. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    Big Red,

    Could you explain what you mean by having the engine "balanced and tuned", after installing the exhaust? What specifically was done, and why?.......and how was it determined?

    Thanks.
     
  5. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    What happens is the cats are no longer there and the O2 sensors would be off because the engine will run more free. Its not as restricted, so it would run lean and the banks would be off including the idle. If mechanically inclind its not hard to set up the car, if your like me then you need to have it done correctly. Its a minor adjustment, does not take long, but it might take time to adjust correctly. Example, revs might be correct but use the A/C it might be off, press the clutch and revs come crashing down. Happended to me once.Also, it might react different when the temp changes, example..hot to cold. Might have been set up in cold temp and runs fine, but soon it gets warm or hot out same problem may occur.

    When I did mine I had to go in the first time because one side of the banks was off and readjusted. The next time was when the weather changed, went back and fixed that in minutes. Every since runs perfect with no hiccups. I think I explained it correct.
     
  6. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Hi Big Red

    Where did you get the Borla. Every web site I checked that sold Borla even Borla's web site doesn't show an exhaust system for a Ferrari TR.

    Lou
     
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  8. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  9. ASG 86TR

    ASG 86TR Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2001
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    Adam G
    I had a Koenig racing exhaust built for me, and almost everone who has heard my car, esp in the tunnels of NYC or the track said it is the best sounding car. Much louder than the tubi and more like a true 12 cyl than the borla and such. FYI Boral does not make a TR exhaust anymore.
     
  10. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    What a shame, no wonder he cant find one on the website.
     
  11. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
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    Sep 5, 2001
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    adam's car sounds awesome, BTW there is a borla office right near my house I could check if they have any old TR exhusts lying around :)
     
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  13. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
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    Jeff
    This is an interesting thread. I have been toying with the idea of making my own exhaust for my TR. I have the mufflers, and the layout for the pipes from the headers to the mufflers, and the tail pipes....just have to start bending them up. This thread originally mentioned the need to have the car re-tuned once an aftermarket exhaust was installed. Did all of you guys with Tubi, Borla, etc. have to get your cars retuned? I can sorta understand that a free flowing exhaust may cause the car to run slightly lean due to better cylinder scavaging and higher flow. Perhaps retuning just depends on how each individual car responds to better exhaust systems....some may need it and some may not?
     
  14. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jeff, I was told that going from cats to an exhaust with no cats messes up the oz sensor, and cause the revs to be unstable and car runs bad. Its not a difficult setup, it takes just abit of time and a good ear and a few drives around. As for the doing it on your own, Tom B here in Ontario had an 87 with one he created when I was there last week. SOunded better than a tubi because the tinny sound was eliminated but it still wasnt throaty enough. I cry every two yrs when I have to change the exhausts for the smog test. It sounds so quite in comparison to the borla. The best way to describe the sound on the borla is like a Harley bike very thick and throaty and at the higher rpm just louder and smoother.
     
  15. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    Feb 16, 2003
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    http://stores.andale.com/hgparts

    My friend with a 1988.5 got a TUBI from this guy for the best price. He is an Fchat sponsor. HG Car Parts.

    I believe he carries Capristo also.
     
  16. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Hi Jeff
    You see I brought my car to a couple of custom exhaust shops. They both told me the same thing. " It could do more harm then good." Well the word harm seems to stick in your head. I called several people and checked every exhaust web site out there. All I found was that Tubi is the only place that has a replacement system. You see I am thinking of making the same pieces hanry k. made for the converters, this way I can keep my os sensers. But what muffler to pick????? I see I started quite the interest. What does everyone think of having a custom exhaust bent to fit. Will this so called exhaust sign wav that is so critical at high rpm's cause me a nightmare's. Or is there something else?
    Thnks
    Lou
     
  17. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Dear Ferraristi,

    I have a 91 TR with no cats. To preserve the the O2 sensors, I have bypass pipes with the O2 sensors installed. I did have to go through the tuning and balancing proceedure as well. I'm still getting the revs dropping off near stalling then comming back after a blip of the throttle. I changed to the bypasses first because of the TR "blocked cat fire" problem I've heard of. I'm still searching for a good exhaust. I want more sound than a Tubi as well. I did have a Stebro SS exhaust on my 308 Is Stebro a good choice for a TR?

    Your comments please!
     
  18. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    From my understanding, a "tuned" exhaust ONLY refers to equal lengths of the headers, which Ferrari already has. I really don't think that the rest of the exhaust is that important. The O2 sensor measures the 02, whether it is on one exhaust, or another.

    Those who find it necessary to "re-tune" the FI after replacing their exhaust, I would ask, was it really "tuned" in the first place? Even if so, re-tuning is no big deal, if one has an exhaust gas analyzer.

    The O2 sensor is before the cats, thus how can an exhaust after the cat, change the reading of the O2 sensor?.........unless it it clogged?
     
  19. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Dear Ferraristi,

    The O2 sensor plugs into the cat assembly unit on the the TR. Unbolt the cats and the O2 bung goes with them. ( Two O2 sensor on a TR )
     
  20. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    The O2 sensor plugs into the exhaust "before" the cats. Test pipes include the bung for the O2 sensor.
     
  21. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Dear Ferraristi,

    What I mean is where you unbolt the cat from the exhaust system, the O2 plug is in that section of pipe. I guess before the cat but on that unbolted section of "pipe"

    Shamile
     
  22. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

    Mar 15, 2004
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    i had a 1985 testarossa with a bell exhaust on it sounded great as i now have a f512m i dont know which system to buy [bell tubi caparisto]and is it cats on or cats of the bell is cheaper than the other two and it was great on the tr so should it sound the same on the f512m i dont know does anybody have a f512m with a sports exhaust that can comment
     
  23. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Hi Steve
    Never heard of a Bell Exhaust System, Checked on the net and can't find anything. Can you point me in the right direction.

    Lou
     
  24. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

    Mar 15, 2004
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    hi they are made in england if you are still interested let me know and i will forward you the phone number
     

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