87 tr no spark at coil | FerrariChat

87 tr no spark at coil

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 2mmuch, Oct 3, 2004.

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  1. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2003
    326
    Ontario
    Full Name:
    Luigi
    Just got home after driving around for a while. Went in to eat lunch. Went back outside to go to the store and my Tr will not start. It turns over ok but won't fire up. I checked and there is no spark at both coils when the car is being turned over. Any suggestions?
    Thanks
    Lou
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,041
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    First off..check all connections at the fuse panel in the front. Pull the large white mutilwire connectors out of the panel one by one. Look for any burning or brown/black dicoloration on the connector and terminal. Repair as needed and then go from there.
     
  3. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    I would check connections from the coils to the ignition ECU, located in the left fender-well........there are two connectors, beneath the coolant expansion tank.

    I am not sure of what connectors, in the front fuse panel, are ignition related..........problems here, are mainly fuel related.

    Just looked at the wiring diagram. The fuse panel is the electrical connection between the ignition switch and the ECU. The ignition switch wiring comes in from the left side, and goes out the bottom sections.......second from the left.

    Good luck!
     
  4. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Hi Guys

    Checked all the white connectors on the fuse panel and they all look fine, No Brown connections.
    Checked the two connectors under the expansion tank. Took them off, cleaded the and re-connected them. Still no luck.
    I don't think its a gas problem because I can smell it.
    Any thing else?

    Thanks
     
  5. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    The next step would be to see if you get 12 V to the coils. With the ignition on, you should read 12 V between the coil connector (#15) and ground. There are two connectors, at the bottom of each coil.....front and rear. On the right coil, the 12V should be read at one on the terminals on the "front" connector. On the left coil, read 12V on the "rear" connector.

    Remember, that these connectors have "2" wires, each. When testing, you should get a 12V reading from only one of them, not both.
     
  6. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Hi Henry
    Just go in from the garage. I don't know if this is just luck and maybe the problem is still there. As I was under the hood of the car I thought I would check my oil and it was under the min. line. I put in 2 quarts of oil and got it back up where it should be. Turn the key on the car and bag it fired up. Is there some type of sensor for oil level? Thanks for all the help.

    Lou
     
  7. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,041
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    Tom
    I assum you put the engine oil in while the engine was cold. Not really a good idea. I bet your oil is now overfull as you must check the oil when the engine is a operating temp.
     
  8. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    I don't believe that there is an oil level sensor, that affects the ignition.

    It would appear that you had/or, still have, a loose connection someplace. Don't be surprised if the problem recurs. You may want to remove, and reconnect, the main long connector to the ECU, itself.

    If the engine was stopped for a while, and you then added 2 quarts, you may have TOO much oil in the engine. The oil level should be taken when the engine is warm, and right after shut-down..........within 1 minute, or less. The dipstick will give a false "low" level, if the engine has been shut off for a while, since the oil drains, by gravity into the engine when resting. My dipstick shows normal level, after shut down, yet it shows way below minimum, when checking it with the engine cold.
     
  9. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Hi Guy.
    The problem is back. After the car sat for a week I went out today to go for a ride. The engine turns over but there is no spark come from the coils. Henry I check the power on the connector like you said and I'm getting 11.4 V on both the right hand front connector and the left hand rear connector. What next? Could it be a bad coil?

    Thanks
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,932
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    You might want to make a resistance measurement on the (unplugged) flywheel sensors (should be something like 700~1K Ohm -- which will also give you a chance to inspect/reseat those connections as well). Just one small branch (that's easy to reach) on the huge tree you're pruning ;)...

    IIRC, even if you have one dead coil/power module, and it's on the side that needs a good one to keep the engine running, the engine would/should actually fire/cough on the other side when the starter motor was cranking -- do you get any attempt at all to fire during starter cranking or just nothing?
     
  11. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Hi Steve

    Nice to here from you again. There is no attemp of firing up at all. To check the Ohm's on the sensors. I get .670 on the TDC Sensor and .720 on the Tach Sensor.

    Thanks
    Lou
     
  12. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    Luigi,

    Since the problem affects both sides, and happened at the same time, this would suggest something that is common to both coils. I doubt that both coils went south, at the same time!!!!

    That would be the following:

    1): The flywheel sensors, as Steve suggeted. However, your readings appear normal.

    2): The only thing left, as I see it, would be the ignition ECU itself........ouch!!! Try removing and reconnecting the main plug going to the ECU. If the problem is still there, then I would suspect the ECU.
     
  13. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Henry
    Do you know which one is the Ignition ECU. Is it the one closer to the rear of the car or the one closes to the front.

    Thanks
    Lou
     
  14. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    Neither. I assume you are looking at the 2 ECUs in the RIGHT fender......one fore and one aft. These are the two FI ECUs, NOT the ignition ECU. Each one controls one bank of the FI system.

    The ignition ECU is a single unit, located in the LEFT fender. This ECU controls the whole ignition system. It should be to the left of the expansion tank. The two plugs, below the expansion tank, go to the ignition ECU.
     
  15. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Henry
    I see the plugs that go under the expantion tank. I pulled both off, cleaned them and reconnected. Do they go up to the box located on top of the left rear fender. Is that the ignition ECU? I looks like it has a vacuum hose coming out of the top.

    Lou
     
  16. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    Yes it is. The vacuum line comes from the intake manifold. The vacuum helps the ECU in deciding the advance.
     
  17. 2mmuch

    2mmuch Formula Junior
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    Thanks

    I'll let you know what happens.
     

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