'88 412A for sale ... Any street wisdom?

The description and pictures are impressive. Sounds as though there was some sort of front end crash since the front bumper and front lenses have been replaced.

Could be a bargain if it checks out.

 

I've corresponded with the owner- who appears to be a super nice guy and has spent a ton on the car-

I'm always curious when the VIN is not displayed... Autocheck reveals:

Car was in accidents 6/25/97 and 4/4/2009.

Odometer reported at 73,074 miles on 6/25/97

Reported Odometer is now 18K miles- Allowing for the common KM/Mile read error that still means the vehicle was showing 45,000 miles in 97- which seems about right to me for this type of car. Without a complete history going back to day 1 I would assume that almost all of these cars have traveled around 50,000 miles+ by now- they were not designed to be weekend toys, but rather to be daily drivers.

So with two accidents, a rolled back odometer, leather dash shrinkage and a color scheme considered by many to be less desirable, I would think the seller is just a bit optimistic.

 

don't you think it would have rolled over as opposed to having been rolled back ?

or did the 412's have a 6 digit odometer ?

 

Brett-

Perhaps you are correct- 412's have 5 digit Odometers.

130,000 km is 80,000 miles, Which would be about right if the car had traveled 40K+ 15 years ago...

The vehicle has had a ton of work done but then engine bay does not look as clean and crisp as some of the verifiable low mileage 412s I've seen photos of.

I hope the owner can clear the discrepancy up for us- I will be viewing the car in a week or so on a trip through NJ- and will be happy to report back.

 

What is the serial number?

Your autocheck reports are somewhat concerning, to say the least.

As an aside, I would think that the money spent on certifying a 412 as "Ferrari Classiche" is money wasted. What do you guys think?

 

ZFFYD24B000075144

 

Yes that is the same car-

All 400/412 cars were imported into the USA individually and DOT/EPA approved.

You'll need California BAR to be legal in CA- But Brian should be able to give you the details of that. Owner is Willy and a nice guy- seems like a few too many questions related to this car that need to be answered...

 

Nice car. The color is Morrone Metalazo (Metalic Chestnut Brown). In my opinion the color is a good choice for the subtle lines. The 365GT4 project that Brett has was originally this color.

For a PPI, shops nearby are:

Classic Coach (Major shop quasi affiliated with Ferrari)

Brian Vignale (Decent independant)

Ferrari of Central Jersey (spin-off of Classic Coach - official dealership)

I suspect that all will be fine for a PPI.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Having been though emission issues with several older Ferrari cars I would recommend buying a car already converted.

The car will have to meet 1988 standards for both a visual inspection (egr, cats etc) and a tailpipe test. If you live in San Ramon it will have to go on the dyno with very tight standards. If you live out past Livermore toward Tracy or Modesto it is only an idle test and a short 2500 rpm run with the sitting on concrete.

A first time into CA is very difficult for these cars because you will have to have the import paperwork, the DOT safety and bumper paperwork, and the emission conversion paperwork done by a CA certified shop. Additionally the VIN will have to verified by the Highway Patrol. The cost to have a conversion done (most of the shops have been long gone, but with enough money $10k+ anything is possible) is expensive. If you find a decent car that is already CA certified it will have a new CA VIN number and a bar code plate on the driver's side B pillar and the original Ferrari plate and European code stickers will be gone. Once the CA plate is on the door pillar you no longer need the paperwork, the CA ID plate covers it all. My insurance company accepted the CA VIN number with no questions asked.

The key here is to be patient. The car you want will eventually show up, and at a reasonable price. Any questions send a pm.

ScottB

83 400i

 

Certainly the advantage of the 456 is it already complies with all the CA requirements. Just make certain it has already had the valve guides done.

Do not recall exactly, but seems there has been an Azure Blue 456 for sale recently mid state near Santa Maria.

Regardless, good luck with your search.

Scott B

 

I have not had a chance to see the car in person- I'm on the West Coast away from the snow this week. If you make it there before me I hope it works out for you.

 

Eric-

OK go get em! That car is really the perfect driver- lots of curious carfax info and a couple of reported fender benders- but a conscientious owner who spent a ton to get the car right- I'm afraid I can't get past the Marrone exterior and the brown dash- That plus the leather repair needed puts it at the bottom of my list right now-

Have you driven a 412 auto yet?? I have now driven three autos- one manual and four different 400i's- Seven cars in three days- Every one different than the last-

The 400I autos - the ones I drove- are slow off the line and never get going until you're really moving- then they are pretty good- The 412 auto is just as dog-slow off the line- So totally different than the American cars that share that tranny- feels like you're in a Chrysler K Car with the A/C on- but once you get rolling they'll kick down and the car is a beast- The manuals of course allow you to get off the line a bit and are a ton more fun- but something about the nature of the car suits an auto- Yet I now fully understand why the manual demands such a premium price in the marketplace!

These cars are really the total opposite of the mid engine Ferraris- just big brutish cars that- if you get a really good one- feel like a handbuilt work of art- Performance on a really well setup 412 auto is about on par with a 928 - the 928 a bit quicker off the line- the 412 a bit punchier in accelerating at speed- and the Mercedes 4-speed auto is a HAMMER when you put your foot down- while the TH 400 takes a bit of time to do it's thing...But NO COMPARISON in the overall experience. My 928 feels like an ocean of plastic.

But seriously Eric- get out there and drive the car- I can see why so many people slag the autos- they rob much of the sporting nature from the car- but they do present a very cool and authentic vintage driving experience. If real performance is important you might want to look at a decent 456- it's really a dramatic dropoff- maybe even more than going from my 355 to my old 308- which is drastic!

(Honestly- I kind of dig the auto 412s... crazy isn't it?)

 

Jay and others,

If the auto is a dog off the line, any thoughts of putting in a newer, 4-speed, GM tranny? The option is available for the Jag XJ6. I would assume that the mods would be minimal and the granny gear would solve the off the line issues.

Regards,

Art S.

 

my '78 400a, with a passager and a stopwatch, does 0-100km in an unflattering 8 seconds...but really, who gives a **** about that ?
it's time from 100-240km is far more impressive...

 

Yeah Brett you're right on the money-

When you come to the 365/400 series from a 355 or 348 you're so dramatically disappointed at the initial response of the car- Not what this car is about- even the 5 speed never feels "Quick"- but once you're going the grunt of that engine and the sound is unmmistakably Ferrari- and you wind up blowing past traffic very quickly and the car will be well past 110 MPH beofre you realize you're going that fast!

These were not designed to drive to the racetrack and then compete- they were meant to coddle their millionaire owners to the track, were they would step into their multimillion dollar vintage racer and have a bit of fun while their Trophy Wife sat under an umbrella.

As a usable vintage car I think it's pretty cool.

 

for me it was exactly the opposite actually...and while i wouldn't say i was "dramatically disappointed" with the 348 and 355...i certainly expected more...
and all that plastic is hard to get used to when you're accustomed to, well, frankly, more elegance...and obviously, the sound can't even begin to compare...
but it only served to reinforce to me just how outstanding the early 70's era tech of the 365/400 was...
the 365/400 is just the perfect segway between vintage and modern where a 2+2 GT is concerned.

 

I happen to think my 365 is fairly quick, I think there are some VTEC Hondas with farter exhausts running around here that think it is also. Maybe not as fast as my V or the new Mustangs or Camaros but it is nothing to be ashamed about.

The surprising thing is how we the car handles. A 3800lb car with "tiny" 215 70 15s that does as well as this car does really speaks a lot about the suspension and overall balance of the car. I would be interested to drive my car with a set of 245 55 17s. Of coure with the knock offs this would not be an easy or cheap thing to do but it would still be a great experiment.

The thing to keep in mind with the cars is they are still Ferraris. Even if they are thought of as the entry level unloved etc, they are still a Ferrari. I will probably never drive some of the older more valuable models but I would like to just to compare to my car, I have a feeling most of them don't drive as well as mine.