88 Testarossa stumbles for 10-15 seconds upon cold start | FerrariChat

88 Testarossa stumbles for 10-15 seconds upon cold start

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Threeofnine, Sep 5, 2024.

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  1. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    I’ve often heard Testarossa’s have a rough cold start but I don’t think it’s supposed to be like this. My 88 US spec often feels like it’s initially running on one bank for the first 10-15 seconds before it stabilizes. Rpm’s are low and the engine feels like it’s stumbling during the initial few seconds. Occasionally the battery light is also illuminated but goes off, and stays off, the moment rpms reach 1200.

    After the initial cold start hiccup, it runs and idles just fine. There is also no stumbling upon restart until the engine cools down completely, usually overnight.

    I assume this is not normal. If not, where should I start?

    Short video of a cold start: https://youtube.com/shorts/MYqPLR7qlvE?feature=shared
     
  2. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    2,345
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    Battery light is normal, as the alternator requires an initial "excitation" (sorry for the poor english). So it will not go off untill you've reached at least once a certain level of rpm. From then on it may pop-up again if idling very low.

    If your car is on k-jet, there is a sweet spot to be identified in terms of cold control pressure and thermo time switch duration, so as to enrich sufficiently the engine, but not too much.

    Mine is a bit on the lean side during cold startup and it indeed takes a bit of time to "clear" the idle. Also my fast idle valves are a bit sluggish, so do not raise idle sufficiently to compensate for this initial lean mixture.

    I personnaly reluctantly enrich the cold startup mixture, because although it improves idling it also generate obnoxious fumes... So a rough idle for a 30 seconds seems a better compromise. I would consequently be more than happy if the fast idle valves could keep idle higher during this initial period.
     
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  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
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    #3 Steve Magnusson, Sep 6, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2024
    (There's no "control pressure" on a KE-Jet US version TR.)

    Sure looks like you have a dead bank at cold start-up -- either a dead fuel pump or a dead bank of ignition. (but then maybe it gets going like if you use the running bank to get the alternator going so the voltage goes up and then the dead bank gets going). Have you done anything to fix the known degraded connections for the fuel pumps in the y white connector? If not, have you unplugged and inspected the y white connector female terminals for the fuel pumps? If those seem OK = you should probably use a timing light (or spark tester) to rule the ignition system in, or out, first.

    PS One of your slowdown warning light ECUs looks dead.

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  4. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
    Birmingham, AL USA
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    Jarrod Heath
    I have not but I’ll certainly check them today. What should I be looking for, evidence of excessive heat? I was aware of the slowdown light but my car has no cats. I was told, on here, that it wasn’t a concern if I didn’t have cats. Is this correct?
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Yes, just like in the photo -- discoloration of the white plastic around the end of the female terminal (which can't be seen when they are plugged in), and the "prong" ends of the female terminal being spaced apart and not touching each other in the free state.

    Yes, that's correct. There's no safety issue if you have no catalytic structures in the exhaust system to ignite unburned fuel+air, but, if I was a Buyer of your car, I wouldn't call it a good thing, and would deduct the cost to replace it from my offer ;).
     
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  6. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    I just checked the fuse box. Looks like someone mess around with it real good.
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  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Yes, someone has already done "something" to bypass those (probably crispified) fuel pump terminals -- you'll have to investigate and probably do a better repair. Things like "crimp" terminals (to join wires) or just twisting the wires together without soldering don't work very well because the current is so high (like 10A). The bottom line is that you need some form of wiring from terminal 30 of the fuel pump relays to the beige (P) and beige-black (PN) wires (that were originally in the y connector) going to the fuel pumps that can carry a high current reliably.
     
  8. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
    Birmingham, AL USA
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    Jarrod Heath
    Thank you Steve. I will probably purchase a new 11 pin fuse box connector and try to rebuild this one. Will the female pins likely need to be replaced too? I assume they will. I am away from my car at the moment so I cannot check.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Yes, the female terminals would need to be replaced, and you should look at the male terminals on the PCB -- those often get destroyed, too, as well as the PCB traces in the male terminal area. But going back to stock is just going to guarantee the same problem in the future. IMO, you should get either:

    1. Guido's TR PCBA (that has robust wires and better connectors)
    or
    2. GT Car Parts TR PCBA (that has thicker traces).
     
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  10. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
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    Jarrod Heath
    Thanks, I’ll definitely look into that. A quickly Google search of Guido's TR PCBA didn’t return anything. You wouldn’t happen to have a link would you? I really appreciate it Steve.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Start conversation with theunissenguido (I hope he still sells them -- red bay cars link seems dead).

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146089664
     
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  12. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
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    Yesterday before reconnecting the pin connectors I tried to clean up the pins the best I could. Cold start today was much much better, it stumbled a little but nothing like previously so I’m hopeful this is the issue.

    I was looking through my service records and discovered the fuse box was previously replaced, in 2014, with a unit from Scuderia Rampante. Is this unit not high quality and/or is it possible they replaced the box but not the pin connectors?
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  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    The SRI modifications is OK, but the added relays are mounted behind the stock fuse-relay panel (so are rather unaccessible), and there should be another small fuse panel added on the RH side -- do you have that? Your picture wasn't wide enough to show it, but this the SRI modification:

    (doing an edit to add the picture -- please wait)
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 Steve Magnusson, Sep 7, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2024
    (Couldn't get it all done in the 20 minute editing window so I'll repost.)

    The SRI modification is OK, but the added relays are mounted on the backside of the stock fuse-relay panel (so are rather inaccessible) and there should be another small fuse panel added on the RH side (plus some of the stock fuses would be missing) -- do you have that? It's a much more "obvious" modification -- it works, but I'm not a fan. Your picture wasn't wide enough to show it, but this the SRI modification (note the added fuses, the missing stock fuses, and the extra wires connected to some "faux" relay bodies) :

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    This is the backside with the added relays:
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    And here are some shots of it as installed (it seems to have undergone some small changes over the years):

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    Can you post a photo of your entire fuse-relay panel? If you do have the SRI modification and a fuel pump is not working could be a bad relay or a bad wiring connection somewhere (if the fuel pump itself is OK.)
     
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  15. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
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    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
  16. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
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    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, that seems to be SRI (plus a few other mods).
     
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  17. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    5,069
    Troy, Michigan
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    James
    you don't need fuses in the top row where there are red highlights. those are the ones that SRI reroutes.
     
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  18. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    I’ll check the relays here in a moment. I really appreciate your help.
     
  19. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
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    Birmingham, AL USA
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    Jarrod Heath
    Which red highlights? I assume that means I can use those circuits for other things?
     
  20. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 30, 2006
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    I don't think they are connected to anything. SRI rewires the fusebox and reroutes those wires. Those are just spare fuse holders now.
     
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  21. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    They actually do have power, I checked them. There are two empty fuse slots (which have power), there are also two extra fuel pump fuses, along with the two on the mini panel. Do you mean those fuel pump fuses on the top row are not actually connected to the fuel pumps? I was actually wondering why there were 4 fuel pump fuses.
     
  22. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    408
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    Disregard above post. My memory was faulty, the two empty slots are the fuel pumps. They do have power. I assume I can make use of them?
     

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