88 TR AC Clutch 12V power wire | FerrariChat

88 TR AC Clutch 12V power wire

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by OptimusPrime, May 31, 2023.

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  1. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I Could use a little help with A/C not working. I think I should have 12 volts to the wire at AC compressor to engage the clutch but I don't. I verified that the fuse is not blown (only one fuse), verified white connectors are ok, and verified that the HI/Low pressure switch is closed (pressure not high or too low) tested with Ohm meter also. AC switch in cabin turns on the fans. Any ideas on what I should check next?
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,832
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Have you performed the resistance checks of the input devices to the HVAC ECU shown on page H30 of the TR WSM?
     
  3. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,822
    Bologna
    Wow. I didn’t even know my TR had a HVAC ECU. Is it solid state or does it have tubes?
     
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  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,832
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    ;)

    There are quite a few connections (beyond just the high-low pressure switch) involved in the HVAC ECU "deciding" to turn on the AC Compressor Clutch Coil to that signal actually reaching the AC Compressor, but the OP needs to determine if:

    1. The HVAC ECU is trying to turn the AC Compressor Clutch "on", but the signal doesn't get there. When the HVAC ECU wants to turn the AC Compressor Clutch "on", it puts +12V on its (Roman Numeral) pin II output (two CN orange-black wires).

    or

    2. The HVAC ECU never tries to turn the AC Compressor Clutch "on" because it's dead or it's getting a wacky input signal so it never tries to turn it "on" (these are the resistance checks on page H30).

    The OP's passenger cabin blower working is a good sign that +12V power is present to run the HVAC ECU -- the three M brown wires on its (Roman Numeral) pin III should be +12V whenever the key is "on".
     
  5. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I will test the resistance and respond back. Thanks Steve.
     
  6. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Resistance measures not looking so good according to work shop manual:

    Measured at 20 deg C ambient

    Heater temp contacts 1-2 should read 12,500 ohms but I get 000.0 ohms basically no resistance
    Cooler temp contacts 1-3 should read 3443 ohms but I get an open circuit (O.L)
    Car inner temp contacts 1-4 should read 126.74 ohms but I get 19.5
    Temp regulating potentiometer should read 0 ohms to 10,000 ohms as you turn knob. I get 19 ohms to 16 ohms through 360 deg
    Contacts 1-6 should read 10,000 ohms but I get an open circuit (O.L)

    I assume key should be off for this testing.

    Huston we have a problem.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,832
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, key "off" (but having so many seemingly wrong seems weird). All of those resistance measurement use pin #1 which should be a good ground -- measure the resistance from pin #1 (the BN white-black wire) in the 6-pin (unplugged) HVAC ECU connector to the negative battery terminal = should be near 0 Ohms. If not = that needs to be fixed.
     
  8. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Off to buy a new volt meter as it is reading open circuit intermittent on a copper penny. Will redo resistance readings with a new meter… ARRGG!!!
     
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  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    9,545
    southwest Germany, France ( Alsace ) and Thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    may be the meter only needs a new battery?
     
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  10. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    So, rather than pretend I did all this correctly, I will admit to my mistakes. First, turbo-joe was correct, I needed a new battery in my volt meter (thank you). The other dumb move was that I tested the 6 pin connector to the Wiper relay as I was in a hurry and did not look closely at the picture in the work shop manual. So here are the readings for the correct 6 pin connector:

    They look a lot better..lol

    at 20 Deg C:

    Pin 1-2 should read 12,500 ohms and I get 11,500ohms
    Pin 1-3 should read 3,443 ohms and I get 3,442
    Pin 1-4 should read 12,674 ohms and I get 12,190 ohms ohms
    Pin 1-5 should read 0 to 10,000 ohms and I get 21 - 10,600 ohms
    Pin 1 to neg bat terminal I get 0 resistance, good ground

    And no power to the AC clutch when I turn on AC

    Thoughts on next test? thx
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,832
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    And, with everything plugged in, do you also have no power (no +12V) on (Roman Numeral) pin II (two CN orange-black wires) of the 4-pin HVAC connector when you request AC "on"?
     
  12. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Thanks Steve, I read 13.5V on Pin II Orange-Black wires on the 4-pin HVAC connector when car is running and AC on back probing.
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,832
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    That's a very good sign that the HVAC ECU is OK, and the problem is just a bad connection in the path from Pin II to the AC Compressor Clutch. Next make the same voltage measurement between the CN (orange-black) wire (and ground) at the high-pressure switch:

    1. if it also is +12V, measure between the VM (green-brown) wire (and ground) at the high-pressure switch -- it should also be +12V if the high-low pressure switch is really working :).

    2. If it isn't, you need to check the connections in the k and b white connectors of the fuse-relay panel. (By "check" - just unplug, visually inspect, and replug.)

    If the VM wire at the high-low pressure switch is +12V (but not +12V at the AC compressor), check the a and j white connectors at the fuse-relay panel and the C11 9-pin square connector under the coolant expansion tank in the engine bay.

    If you need a copy of Fig 9 for the late US TR HVAC system, use this link:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gne5xw608ba818b/509_88 US TR Wiring Diagram Book.PDF?dl=0
     
  14. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Steve, white connectors have no evidence of heating, not even a little discoloration. I measured between green-brown wire and (ground) at the high/low pressure switch and got an open circuit (no 12V). I pulled the connector off of the high/low pressure switch and measured resistance of the switch and it was closed (zero resistance). I plugged back in the connector and the AC clutch clicked on and engaged AC and started working. Not sure if I have an intermittent connection or intermittent pressure switch. I added a little dielectric grease to contacts in high/low pressure sensor connector but don’t see a loose connection or anything. Good to have AC again but…. Thoughts? Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
     
  15. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,832
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    That's always the problem with electrical Gremlins -- just getting in to investigate, stuff gets wiggled around enough to alter things. Even though the connectors didn't look obviously "burned", the contact area is very small so unplugging and replugging them "wipes" the contact surfaces which can be very beneficial. You can't fix it when it's not broken, but now you are armed with enough knowledge to know where to look in the food chain from Pin II of the HVAC ECU to the AC Compressor Clutch Coil if it recurs. (You should still be thanking the Gods that your HVAC ECU was OK ;).)
     
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  16. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2018
    1,308
    Full Name:
    Sergio Tavares
    Is your a/c refrigerante low as to shut the pressure switch to out?
    that is correct operation if you need fill so compressor does not run 100% to die
     
  17. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Formula Junior

    May 10, 2011
    291
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Yes, it was full. Thanks for the comment. It’s all good now and working.
     

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