New member introduction, AlfaAndy, hello everyone! Brief into, I'm a semi-retired auto technician with domestic, and Alfa Romeo factory training. One of my Alfa owner friends has a 1989 Countach that cranks but will not start. He has owned it for many years and states that it always would start, but not any more. I can feel the fuel pump run, and the coil is throwing spark into the coil wire. Before I go any further, and dig into this monster mess of an engine compartment, does anyone here have experience that they would like to share concerning hints-tips-common issues, etc that may reduce my diagnostic time. Any knowledgeable help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Hi & welcome. I'd love a nice GTv6. Anyways I would check the rotor inside the distributor cap. Look for moisture and green corrosion first. The caps for what ever reason seem to attract moisture, enough to the point that some drill vent holes as a preventative measure. Look for fire at a plug & make sure the battery is hot enough to spin the engine vs just turn it over. Im sure a few more will chime in, but that would be what I rule out first.
check for spark at the plug, see if its getting spark out of the distributor. if it is try starting fluid. The pump might not be providing enough PSI. if you can give it fuel and it fires then you probably have a fuel issue.
Welcome! One common failure point is the Magnet Marelli ignition box. The things were notorious for dying. A lot of Countach owners replace it with the MSD 7AL-2 unit (mine included). Joey makes a very good point on the distributor. If I had a nickel for every owner I have spoke with who has a distributor that has the counterweights rusted, I’d be a rich man. Mikael82 has a great thread on tearing it down and rebuilding it: https://www.********************/vbforum/f43/weekend-mechanic-my-countach-diy-thread-10787/index21.html#post239637 Mike
Thank you all for your replies. I tinkered with the car a bit yesterday. It's a pita because it's in the owner's garage, cramped with no tools. Now, after checking for spark at the cap end of the coil wire, and reattaching it to the cap, I have spark at the end of (at least one) the spark plug wire. Plugs (the one that I removed) look new and dry. Fuel. When the key is cycled to on, KOEO, I can feel each fuel pump click (I reached under the low slung girl and removed the cover panels). But when cranking, I don't feel the fuel pumps running. I loosened the banjo bolts on the hoses from the fuel filters to the fuel distributors and no matter how many times I cycle the key, or crank, no fuel comes from the (loosened) connection. I found a thread on another forum that discusses that there is a fuel pump relay that is a timer relay that gets a signal from the coil that pulses the relay to stay on, and power the fuel pumps. It says that the relay box is in the trunk near the coil (left side). Can someone here confirm this information and also provide information on which relay is for the pumps, and which wire(s) (under the relay) that I can power to see if I can get the pumps running? Another fuel question. Is this Bosch CIS car set up that the air vane has to move (from intake vacuum) to actuate the fuel pumps? If so, if I jumped the relay connection, would I have to move the vane to get the pumps running? If yes, can I push down on the vane through the mixture adjuster hole? One or both sides? Fuel level. The fuel gauge does not move when KOEO, but the owner said that he did put "a few gallons of fuel" in it a few months ago when it wouldn't start. I will bring a jug with me when I return. Even if it was empty, I should hear-feel the pumps running. Does anyone have a link to a fuel system electrics diagram? THANKS again for all your help. AlfaAndy
Looks like you're working in a difficult situation. Are you familiar with CIS injection? I would recommend fitting a fuel injection tester on it to see when and if you have pressure. Resist the temptation to make any adjustments until you are sure it needs them. A good resource for technical information on Bosch CIS is Larry Fletcher at cisflowtech.com. Larry can be very helpful if you give him a call. A Countach is not an easy car to work on. In an unfamiliar place without the right tools, even more so.
Hi Andy, this is all correct, follow the wires at the coil, the White/black wire is the Initiator for the spark, the Brown wire is the Trigger for the fuel pump Relais. On FI cars there is an additional box in the right Fender with some electronic, the error might be there or the wire to the Relais is bad or the Relais itself (Standard Bosch). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
@2NA, Thanks for your reply. I am somewhat familiar with CIS. Serviced an 85 Mondial for several years. I DO KNOW not to make any adjustments willy-nilly. At some point I may hang my fuel pressure gauge on her, but for now, I just want to get the pumps running. @raymondQV, And thank you very much for the info and diagrams. I see 2 relays listed for the fuel pump(s). Is it one for each pump (I doubt it) or is relay Z the one that powers both pumps? Do you know what wire (under the relay) I can power (a jump wire with positive voltage) to see if the fuel pumps work? What color wire? Same color for both pumps? I could try to energize the pumps directly with an energized jumper wire, if I could get under the car. Car is wedged into a tightly spaced garage with a Pantara on one side and an Huracan Spider on the other, and an old Fiat Spider with a Ford 302 just behind it. Last week when I was there it was like 5 degrees F and snow piled up against the garage door, so moving cars around was not an option. Thanks again for your help.
The fuel pumps are in the left tank, just remove the alu plate in front of the left rear wheel, then you can bridge the pumps. You can see the wires in the last picture at the left bottom Corner, there is a connector in the engine bay as well, near the starter. http://www.countach.ch/HeadGasket/Step16/index.html
All Countach from the Quattrovalvole onwards had the fuel pumps in the left tank. LP5000s and older had external Facet fuel pumps as visible here: Image Unavailable, Please Login
As you can see the wires and fuel lines pass originally through the engine bay, what a nonsense and danger, I changed this when we had the engine out http://www.countach.ch/HeadGasket/Step7/index.html
Raymond, if the person is working on a US spec FI car, then maybe different. My 1987 FI has 2 fuel pumps 0580 254 942 Bosch, one located under each fuel tank. As far as I know only the carb cars had 2 fuel pumps located in the left side fuel tank.
Continuing thanks to everyone. I have an appointment to return to the car on Monday, 2-18. I will report my findings.
