911 R crazy market

Interesting comment given the capabilities and quality of the F12, tdf, Speciale, 458, 488, and even FF. I love (and own) Porsches and have tracked both brands.

Are you specifically criticizing Ferrari for the lack of gated manuals? The price? For the gorgeous "handbag" quality interiors?

For me, the F12 is a much more capable and enjoyable real world (not paper spec) car than any regular production Porsche currently made. I'd even take one over a Carrera GT, and it's half the price of the CGT at current valuations. Hell, I love the practically unobtainable 911R but would still rather have an F12. Would you choose a 918 over a LaF? Anyone who can afford a Porsche OR Ferrari, new or used, is rich in the eyes of most.

 

Great to see the shipping protection picture of your 911R. It seems more than half of the production run is complete now. Some customers were offered PTS and few other custom option choices but not many could take advantage with the tight build out schedule of the 911R.

 

I am pretty sure take I'd choose the LaF, although in fairness, I've never driven a LaF or 918. However, I have driven a Carrera GT, 991 variants, GT3, Panamera, Cayenne, F12, FF, 458, 488, etc. I am the original owner of a 993TT so I'm hardly a Porsche hater.

My words were predicated on frequent use of the car rather than investment value. I was just making the point that Porsches, especially the 918 and 911R, were also only available to rich people. Honestly, that's true for the GT3 RS and 991TTS, too, as far as most folks define "rich".

 

Congrats to MSN!!!!

When is mine gonna arrive.....

Production date have moved from September to 3rd week of October, seen like it won't happen till end of year or 2017.....

 

A couple more for all the R fans.. awaiting PDI
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Nice...congrats msn!

 

Sweet!

 

Way to go!

 

Capabiltities I think are are largely paper spec, unless youre talking everyday capabilities like comfort luggage space etc.. A Mp12 is more "capable" than a 570 but a 570 is way more rewarding to drive than a Mp12, and neither can be fully deployed on street, nor can 99% of drivers extract max of either on track. The extra capability is to me an irelevant metric.

Is it fun and rewarding to drive at 50% capability on street(tactile feedback sound etc), can it do more than me on track, will it hold up to a day of tracking. How rewarding is to drive.

A stick shift, feedback through all controls, engine power, engine sound power characteristics are all factors in rewarding to drive. A stick may or may not add to rewardign to drive, its a componant.

I think a speciale given how its mtoor is tuned would be worse with a stick, and aventador probably better, but its really the interplay of evrything that counts,..

I have not driven a f12 so cant comment on that. We do know its a pretty heavy car which would mitigate against sustained track performance. In any event I did drive the 458 and found it particularily underhwelming to drive on street, below 9/10th it could have been any car to steer, with a clown exhaust if you tried extracting power.

That same day i drove a 997,2Gt3 and from a drive experience, feedback, precision tactiity the porche was worth double the 458 not the other way around.

The carerra Gt I thought was epic in many ways, but lacking in tactile steering feel compared to the 997.2Gt3 and could have been better in this regard.

Would I take a Laf over a 918. I would take the styling of the Laf over the 918 and the P1 over either of them. Thats not based on personal experience but on what experienced drivers/racers who have tracked all of them have told me, and yeah I love the P1 in the flesh a lot. Cant say any of these cars would be on my first must have list if I suddenly had x mill to spend on a car.

But frankly if money were no the equation it would be Maclren F1 followed by Carerra Gt followed by P1/laf etc, simply based on fun to drive. Yes you might say the newer cars are more capable on track, and I would counter that any of the above are more capable than all but a handful of drivers, so its fun to drive and relative speed that counts.

Modern ferraris(have not driven F12) are to me synthetic to drive, yes they do really wake up when approaching 9/10th or more, which is really not possible on road, well maybe in germany and south africa it is..

What the 991 R is to me, is a modern incarnation of whats called the anologue car, of which the F1 and 997 Gt3 stand out. They are not antique cars, and we are not looking for hand crank, they are modern in the sense they are computer designed and controlled so eevrythign works, but digital has not detracted from the driving experience. While maybe no faster on road, they offer what an amG mercdes cannot, and they can play ontrack all day long..

An R might be a little big as all 991s are, and even the best eps I think is subpar, but its a step int he right direction.

Or lets say the R follows the Miata formula, but done without the limited budget/price in mind. As a lot of miata are sold, I woudl say that further up the scale there are a lot of drivers who can afford the same formula in something much better faster better built etc. BTW its the type of car ferrari used to build, a modern day 250swb if you will. Lets see the SWB or F40 formula(viceral drive) applied to the 488.

The turbo motor 488 motor has tons of tq and would work great with a stick, so imagine two speciale, one like the last all paddles and electronics, and another even a bit lighter(no paddle tranny) a bit more raw, ore durable no eps. I know which one I would take, which one would be more fun on sunday drive or on track even if it were less capable.

Handbag, nothign to do with the great interior, its that for 90% or 99% of new ferrari buyers its a fashion acessory, somethign to drive to the reteraun in and rev here and there. The more ferrari exclusively caters to that clientale the more the product suffers, not on paper but in reality if you really like to drive and use your car.

i think the R is therefore the most excitign new car to come out this year and a breath of frseh air after the tyrany of paper faster Gt cars being lauded as better..

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BK_3ShHglP6/

Not bad.

 

Boxerman, none of the Mclarens appeal to me on a styling level, and I've never driven one. I have driven tons of Porsches. I love them, too, but much prefer the recent Ferraris.

You really need to drive an F12 on both road and track. I think you'd be very surprised at its real world (not paper spec) capabilities. It is simply brilliant. A masterpiece in every facet, and much more capable on track than you'd have thought. I grew up heel-and-toeing and still love doing it on the Spec Miata, but the F12's DCT is crazy fun on track and great for the street. I think it would be a step backward for Ferrari to put gated manuals in the modern cars. I owned a gated manual F430 and quite honestly, as much as I loved it for its link to tradition, it was no match for the real world (again not paper spec) fun and performance of the DCT. Time moves on. Tech moves on. Fortunately, there is an abundance of sportscars to choose from. I may even pick up a 997.3 gt3 manual at some point, too. No wrong answers here.

And, yes, many Ferrari owners just drive them to dinner, etc. Their loss, maybe, but their choice. Doesn't detract from the engineering accomplishment.

 

Collection day.. One thing I noticed is the green stripes are a flat matt colour, more of an olive green than a bright green..
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Just saw one advertised for $699k (mind blown). When I first saw this car I thought it was perfect for me. Right in between a GT3 and a Carrera S....guess not.

 

Congrats!

 

There were two 911 R at LFSC event over this past weekend and were even more beautiful seeing them in person.

 

Such a great thread that I actually read it from start to finish and I rarely have time for that. I currently have an FF ('13) and its the longest car I have ever kept - 2 years now! I was at a crossroads for the addition to the garage this fall, we have a Cayenne Turbo '16 and I wanted something pure and fun that would make me tingle and work for its love . Anyhow I got on the list for the upcoming 991.2GT3 for the MT but the wait for them is just too long for me to twiddle my fingers and who knows where I am on that list. So my friend/SA at Porsche calls me and says he has a GT4 spec'd the way I wanted it but never pulled the trigger due to our house move etc. Anyhow this happens on a Wednesday, we got back and forth on MSRP+ pricing and end up somewhere I was comfortable with and he wasn't Monday I picked up the car and drove it for 2 days straight in everything from slow city traffic to fun roads and highways. Its a bloody blast and my friends and I have talked about it for hours and hours. Porsche seriously hit it out of the park with the GT4 and if you want to feel connected and amazed there has been nothing close to it (in my working lifetime turning 40 soon) that I have driven that comes close.

I believe it to be a wonderful combination of the FF and GT4 because they are just so different. When I was in the GT4 I was happy as ever but missed the FF-V12 and Ferrari rush it gives (and comfort at some moments) and when I was in the FF I missed the raw connected feel that the GT4 has. My point is that if I could ever take the GT4 experience and amplify it they can take my money tomorrow - if thats the 991R or the upcoming GT3.2MT then Porsche is definitely onto something.

Decisions, decisions, next fall I will either upgrade the FF to the Lusso (getting on the list soon) or for the same money delta ($200k) plus maybe another $150k add an F12?!?!?
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A Porsche 911R will be auctioned tomorrow in Belgium at a Bonhams event. This should shed some light on where the car currently is in the market.

Eerste Porsche 911R onder de hamer in België - Vierenzestig

Erik

 

I believe one was auctioned not long ago and I don't think it got that huge of a premium. I might be mistaken though.

 

Any results on this?

 

The listing is marked "amended" on Bonhams' site. As of right now, they're on lot 28; the R is lot 35.

Whatever the result, it would have very little impact on the US market.

 

Hammered at 420,000 euros.

 

Bonhams 911R sold €483,000 all-in.

 

considering they are asking E483 over sticker in the US, it doesn't seem like a bad deal