Id be curious to see how different an R is to a 991 GTS with a manual GB.
When I first heard of the new 911R, I applauded Porsche's marketing and product planning based on the demand for the model. Having said this, I'm disappointed that Porsche used the "R" nomenclature for something that has no actual racing provenance (even as a homologation car as Joe mentioned). To me, this does a disservice to the original 911R, which is more akin to the current GT3R. Therefore, available or not, the new 911R doesn't interest me as much as a GT3RS. But then, I tend to be much less interested in sports cars and supercars without racing credibility. Just my preference.
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. Frankly, if they are going to make this car, I see no reason for a limited run. Just make it available to anyone that wants it.
I'll be the turd in the punchbowl. Manual trans AND big F'ing wing? And faster on track than R or RS? ACR Extreme!
That's okay! We can disagree and still be friends I said what I said from the heart as a car guy, no agenda, it is what it is.
You kind of make my case for me. The fact that I am a specialist in cars that feature the now-obsolete technology of manual gearboxes is EXACTLY the reason I feel I know where said obsolete technology belongs, and it ain't in the 991 platform! Note also that I do have a basis for comparison, personally owning say an old manual transmission Countach, and also a contemporary 991 platform car with PDK-S (GT3). If you would pay extra for manual transmission, don't let anyone stop you, I suspect Porsche would be happy to hear that, although I'm not sure $10k would get you what you want!
It was made a limited run to make it more convenient for the beancounters (who appear to have replaced designers) at Porsche Ag to calculate net profits right away. German efficiency!
This thread is bringing the LOLs...... For the last several years, car lovers have been lamenting the demise of the MT and imploring the top end manufacturers to again offer us the choice. NOW Porsche is listening, and I applaud them for producing this car with the "slow" transmission....of course in reality the word is actually "fun" transmission. I don't care how they marketed it, just glad every seat found a butt so maybe they will do this in the next iteration again. Surprised to see Joe whining so hard about this considering he doesn't want one....allegedly But then again, there is an old adage about those protesting too much.
You're absolutely correct. I'm not in the same league. I can only afford one classic car and a couple decent daily drivers. I can live with double clutch in the daily drivers though I don't prefer it. For my weekend car I want manual. If I could have a 288 GTO and a 911 GT3 RS my opinion might be different. I just ordered a new Cayman S as a daily for my wife and am happy that the manual is cheaper than PDK. She prefers manual also. Your attitude towards the 911R completely surprised me but I respect your opinion.
And I respect yours too. Its refreshing that people can accept other's feelings and leave it at that, thank you!
I knew a gal once who was a race car driver and a collector. She told me once she would never buy a used car. When I asked why, she said, "I don't want to drive a car someone else has farted in." My response? I said it never bothered my ass.
As I said to another poster, we can disagree (or be surprised at one another) and still be friends Look, I feel how I feel, and to be sure, clear nine (9) months ago I was already rolling my eyes at the announcement of this car http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144240310-post10.html At no point in time since the announcement have I harbored one iota of desire to own this car, and my feelings about the R have been consistent from day one http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144538228-post36.html As I result I have never tried to get an allocation (I do have an opportunity from a dealer principal friend), and furthermore, if I were offered that car at MSRP today, I'd pass. The R was always a non-starter for me, although I must confess, perhaps the car below has something to do with my feelings. The R leaves me cold, to me its nothing more than cynical profit-play by the manufacturer and the car is symbolic of the growing discontent amongst Porsche faithful with Porsche Ag. Anytime I see one, that's what I'm going to think. How I feel about the R, its design, its spec and the reason for its existence is my carefully-considered opinion and I'm sticking with it! If anything, my feelings about the R are not so much a big deal, its my choice. But my disappointment at the way Porsche Ag is doing things lately as a 30-year customer of the company is perhaps more important. If I'm complaining about anything, that would be it. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have had a 1977 930 since 1979 so I have a wing but it is nothing like the wings on the current cars sporting large wings for the track. Most of those wings look like an after market add on rather than something that was designed to conform to the body style of the vehicle's lines.
I could not agree with you more!! There was a out cry from the nostalgic Porsche owners who think a Porsche must be a three pedal car. So good for Porsche listening to their customers. But making it a limited production vehicle is just as others have suggested a marketing ploy to remove $$ from wallets. If they truly had customers interests at heart it would not be a limited production run and would be open to all comers!
Michael You are invited to come drive mine when it gets here in August and report back to see if it is indeed a "parts bin special" or just "special"
The wing on the RS works. At serious speed, in huge rain, it sticks. The fender vents work. The car looks like an early 935 with headlights, before the droop snoots (don't get me started on THAT Werk 1 money grab). The F1, pre-'14 Audi boxes, and the atrocious SMG boxes were and are crap compared to the PDK and current DSGs in Ferrari and BMW. The 599 stick that fetches ludicrous prices had ZERO development. NONE. They just shoved the Graziano box in, left out the pumps, and added leftover clutch pedals from 575's. The PDK and DSG's are so fast and smooth, and paddle use is what guys like Regazzoni have used and retrofitted to their F40's and vintage cars. That said, vintage cars are exactly that, vintage. They are appropriate with sticks. I like sticks. But if you drive, HARD, in a current car, the dual clutch is necessary. I don't see hue and cry for smaller brakes, no ABS, drums. Sticks are fun, so are column shifts (DS21 5 on the tree ) Joe, I agree the GT3 is a wonderful car, and really makes the RS somewhat superfluous for most people. It tracks beautifully, it doesn't have over-rev issues, and is a screaming deal. I had one, sold it for an RS, and the sticker price for an RS was reasonable. I paid market, and the RS does not disappoint. But realistically, it is not worth twice a GT3. An azz for every seat, pre-farted or not. But the R is a waste, and not "limited". Even the RS is not "rare" with 600. I do like the return of houndstooth. But it's not an R without plastic louvered windows, thin Gleverbal glass, no glovebox door, no cupholders, and round taillights. It's a trim and stripe package on a GTS, with a GT3 motor, and a 7 speed with a gear deleted. If you want a great stick, get a GT4 and spend the rest on track days and Hoosiers.
+ 1. I accept there is no right way to view this, only the 'make yourself happy' way, but as I said, sometimes one has to be objective and realize that not every song Bob sang was a hit. You just can't be buying everything a maker puts out or you are no longer being thoughtful. That said, I realize my post would raise some eyebrows, perhaps that was intended
It would be interesting to see if negative/positive opinions of the 911R could be changed after actually driving one.
I agree with this...it isn't a true R. but, a GTS with a bespoke gearbox and the RS motor is a hell of a car
and how about the RennSport Edition & PCA Edition…second hand market 200K+ GTS with decals, brilliant
Own a GT3 RS, had a GT3. Had sticks. Drive very hard. Have no desire to drive R, had no desire to drive 599 6spd. I guess I don't understand why completely disrupting ALL power to wheels for 500-800ms at BEST is desirable in a car that does NOT have the downforce to keep rear planted, nor capability to have traction control active if road has unexpected issue. There is a weight transfer fore and aft with a shift, even the miniscule one with PSK/DSG. Is that a good plan mid corner or anywhere, with extreme grip offered by tires and suspension? I think not. If that is not an issue, I guess I'm baffled why you'd want to pay MSRP, nevermind market, for a car that could be matched by a GTS with a stick?
Agree completely with this assertion - it's the "fun" not the overt speed. And Porsche indeed listened. And they created this masterpiece. It's silly because 99% of the people on this forum don't, and will never, drive the cars they own to the potential that the car(s) is certainly capable of. Most people on here couldn't drive a 328 to it's full potential. So to hear everyone getting caught up in that end of the debate is silly. It's about driving and enjoying the car for what it is and what it was - not about the milliseconds you're shaving off a shift, or the two percent more downforce generated by the gargantuan wing on the back of your car... It's silly. So unless Romain Dumas or Earl Bamber are weighing in on this thread, the idea that a car of the magnitude of the R is being deconstructed (performance wise) by members of this forum is ludicrous. That said, I do agree that Porsche is the master of the marketing and can slap a sticker on a car and command a $20k premium for it (go tick all the option boxes on your 991 and see what that crazy MSRP becomes) - but the 911R is not that car. Do i think it's worth $250k over sticker?? Absolutely not. But is it another "special edition" that they so frequently release in order to capitalize on or sell out a line? Most certainly it is not. If you think otherwise, then you clearly don't understand or appreciate the R for what it is. I'm the first person rolling their eyes when the new "special" editions are released, but again - the R this is not... It's the car that, as a driver, I believe a lot of people have been waiting for and a car that most purists (unfortunately) can't afford to get their hands on. It's not the fastest car -but it's plenty f*n fast. It's not about straight-line performance or stomping the latest super car - it's about the purity, beauty and engagement of driving a classic P-car, combined with the latest technology, with a fair amount of throwback sprinkled in (all the classic touches mated with a proper 6-speed, a single-mass flywheel, none of the flashy "look at me colors / wings" of the GT3 or GT3RS, a car that's lighter than the GT3 RS (with the same power) and blistering performance no matter how you split the hair) -- I'm in. Because, you know, those extra 0.4 seconds the RS shaves off the 0-60 time TOTALLY negate the value of the R overall Here's another great little vid about this wonderful car from Porsche itself. I have a sneaking suspicion that most of the people denigrating this thing are more jealous than not. If you call yourself a driver, there's zero reason why this car shouldn't speak to you; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H952uPx7fao Amazing.
I'm sure that's it. Joe and I are jealous, and not real drivers. If you're a real driver, put 185-15 CN36's on it all the way around, disable abs, and roll, baby. Fun. I've had 4 911's. 74 CIS S, 96 TT Andial, 15 GT3, and 16 GT3 RS. 2 sticks, 2 PDK. Driven far more, including vile early cars bringing such a premium. I've spun about 8-10x I guess running Porkers hard. If you've never felt that little slap on the head as the rear gets light under braking and you're downshifting thru the box, well by all means it's fun. F40 stick-fun. 997 RS stick-fun, save for little overrev problem. my 911 and 993TT were fun. But, since most of the 991 GT3 RS and more of the R's will be "rare garage treasure troves o'fun" that are unused, I guess Porsche is just whoring the brand like Ferrari. They sell trucks, and bilious sedans (new one better). So anything that gets press is good. Have to pay for all those VW's somehow
cool story hansel. not sure how listing all the cars you've owned is helping your cause (also not sure why you'd ever let go of a 96 TT andial or the 74 S...). i think it's slightly immaterial to list the cars you've owned, relative to the point of what the 911 R is. i know what you're trying to do by validating the fact that you're a "driver" by posting all the wonderful cars you've owned - and that's totally cool. i don't know you and i'm sure you do appreciate these machines for what they are, but plenty of people on these boards could list all the cars they've owned (and you've had an impressive array for sure!) - yet it means absolutely nothing to the point that this thread is debating, which is what the R is intrinsically.... the fact that you, per your own assertion are a "driver" and seemingly have had the cars to back that fact up, are turned off by this car - is exactly the point i'm trying to get across. it's sad that true enthusiasts/drivers don't appreciate the R for what it is. not just another 'special edition' porsche with fancy badges and overpriced options... the fact that you don't recognize that is kind of a depressing assertion from someone who clearly appreciates a fine automobile and portents to be a driver of such. i'm with you on the garage queen RS's and the fact that porsche is selling those horrid station wagons and SUV's, but it still diminishes nothing from the fact that the R is what it is. like it or not - it's a proper driver car that drivers will recognize. it's sad that (i agree) most of them will in fact end up in some rich schmuck's "collection", without ever being enjoyed for what they are - but porsche made a car for purists and people who actually appreciate what driving means. not just a car for people with overbloated collections or more money than sense or ability. the R is no where near the other cars that they're releasing at the moment, including the RS or the GT3 (both of which i love by the way). it's truly special.
