92' 348 engine whining noise after timing belt replacement... | FerrariChat

92' 348 engine whining noise after timing belt replacement...

Discussion in '348/355' started by liebkid, Jul 22, 2006.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. liebkid

    liebkid Karting

    Mar 6, 2006
    161
    Back to the water!
    Full Name:
    Darth Diggler
    Hi everyone. On my '92 348, an engine out service with all belts (including timing) plus water pump, etc. replaced was done about a year ago. The car gets driven little and only has just over 5000K miles. However in recent weeks as I made it my daily driver (what a great, great car), I have noticed a whining noise coming from the engine specially at higher RPMs. From past experience on other cars that had got the same type of noise after timing belt replacement, it sounds like too much tension pressure set on the belt. I remember a Lotus Esprit I had that had the timing belt changed and within about 100 miles of driving developed a similar noise that eventually got unburnable. After getting some tension off the belt, the noise was totally gone.

    Now on the 348, there is a slight chance maybe there is excess tension also on one or both the other two belts (water pump/ alternator) and those I know that by jacking the car up from underneath, the tensioning adjustment screws can be reached and adjusted if needed, but, my bet is its the timing belt.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to adjust the timing belt tension on the 348 without major work, aka, engine out, etc? I am out of the service warranty period on the engine out/ belt replacement work at this point and it really would suck a major labor quest just to turn the tensioning adjustment a couple turns off.

    Also, I've started to notice a squeaking noise from the right left suspension when going over bumps or less than perfect pavement and was wondering if this is a common problem that maybe can be address with re-tightening or lubrication. As the car has such low miles and mostly always driven on freeways, I'm hoping it might be more of a dryness lubrication issue on the coil/strut assembly than anything else.

    Thank you upfront for your insights and advice on both these issues. On my 360, I know a few things and tricks... on the 348, I know almost nothing about, really :)

    Michael
     
  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    When you had the major done did they also change the tentioner and idler bearings?

    As for the belt being over tightend, I doubt that is the case. The tention on the timing belt is done via the spring inside the sleeve for the tentioner. Then the retaining bolt gets tightend to hold it in place. There is a hole in the front of the timing belt cover that gives access to the retaining bolt, but I wouldn't mess with it. You will create more of headache for yourself than leaving it alone.

    What you need to do is find where exactly the "whining" noise is coming from.

    It could be that your gear box is running low on oil. That would create a whine due to the gears no being fully lubricated.

    You could be low on oil.

    One of the radiator fans could be on it's way out.

    It could also be the tentioner bearing for the alternator making noise.

    Or, the a/c pump going on the fritz.

    Or, is could be something more sinister like the bearing for the engine oil pump, and crank timing chain, yes I said timing CHAIN, going out.

    But you really need to find out exactly where the noise is coming from and then take it from there.
     
  3. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    On a side note, did you ever get your parking break adjusted?
     
  4. liebkid

    liebkid Karting

    Mar 6, 2006
    161
    Back to the water!
    Full Name:
    Darth Diggler
    Ernie, thanks for all the info first of all. Yes when the major work was done the tensioner and idler bearings were done?

    The gear box running low on oil... hmmm... possible maybe. Would the noise be the same with the clutch pressed or de-pressed as its my case?

    The radiator fans on it's way out I don't think its the case. The noise is RPM dependant... the higher the engine speed the higher the pitch noise. To my knowledge radiator fans' speed is constant.

    The tensioner bearing for the alternator making noise or the a/c pump going on the fritz could be a cause for sure though. I never use the AC because the fan control assembly on the dash has Gremlins... I need to take the console out and clean all connectors etc... sometimes the fan work, most of the times, it doesn't. Also the AC system needs a charge because its not cooling at all.

    As for something more sinister like the bearing for the engine oil pump, and crank timing chain, now you got me real worried. With such low miles, could that possibly (in a worse case scenario) really be the case?

    I am in Santa Barbara and take all my cars to the Ferrari/Maserati service center in San Diego as I trust thoroughly with their work. However, working on the 348 is not their specialty nor have anyone there that really knows the 348s as their forte. Any ideas on possible Ferrari independent service shops I can trust that might be close to me to take the car in for inspection?

    Thanks!

    Michael
     
  5. liebkid

    liebkid Karting

    Mar 6, 2006
    161
    Back to the water!
    Full Name:
    Darth Diggler
    Yeah :)... I took the car to San Diego to the F service shop where they changed oil, did adjust the parking break and checked the car to an overall 100% OK... this was before I started driving it more often and the noise developed. The whine has not really gotten worse these last days but, I really just don't like the way it sounds and on all my F cars, I usually take measures of early diagnostics before the ***** hits the fan if I choose ignore things...
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    For $24 you can purchase an automotive stethoscope at your local parts store. This tool will let you narrow down the area of the whine sound.
     
  7. liebkid

    liebkid Karting

    Mar 6, 2006
    161
    Back to the water!
    Full Name:
    Darth Diggler
    Thanks for the tip! I had no idea such thing existed... :)
     
  8. liebkid

    liebkid Karting

    Mar 6, 2006
    161
    Back to the water!
    Full Name:
    Darth Diggler
    Ernie, can you tell me if you know the exact location of the hole in the front of the timing belt cover that gives access to the tensioner and if it can be accessed from the top (opened engine hood) or only from undearneath the car? Thanks a lot!

    Michael :)
     
  9. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    It's located on the right hand front side of the belt cover. But that is not your problem. The only thing that hole does is give you access to the retaining bolt that holds the tentioner bearing in place after the proper tention has been placed on the belt. In my opinion the access hole is pretty much worthless because you cannot see if all the slack on the belt has been taken up by the spring. Also, for those that have and use them, it does not give you access to place a tensiometer on the belt to check it. In other words, if you really want to properly check the tention on the timing belt you have to fully remove the front of the belt cover.

    I suggest you get a mechanics stethoscope as ND suggested and find exactly where the noise is coming from. Other wise your just grabing at straws.
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,948
    socal
    As you diagnose the sound you can take the A/C and alternator systems out of play by a simple belt disconnect from underneath and the car will still start and run. It is very important to make the right diagnosis of belt or bearing. There are several things under there, waterpump and it's bearing, tensionerbearings, timing gear bearings. If the later you are in for a significant DIY repair. I do not think you will be able to DX the sound wo the T cover off but maybe you get lucky. I think you would need some variation of engine removal for access to remove the cover so you could start and stethesope the front of the car. From the sounds of your post your dx skills may not be up to the task. Perhaps you need a friend w/ more experience give you a hand.
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,948
    socal
    You know you are 2 hours from Ernie, Plugzit or me if you get stuck. We three stooges of autorepair have taken apart just about everything on a 348. But if you come down you'll have to buy us lunch and that could cost you more than a real ferrari mechanic. There is robert garven on this list who is a 308gt4 guy but he has done just about every mechanical job. He lives by you and perhaps he can give it a listen and help you out.
     
  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    How about the water pump? The bearing in the water pump can go bad. So if you still have the old one in that could be a source of the noise.

    No it won't. When you push the clutch in it disengages the from the gears in the transmission. So if you are hearing the noise while driving try pushing in the clutch to see if it goes away. If it does then you have narrowed it down to where the noise is coming from

    Anything is possible in a worse case senario, and yes it could be the case with such low mile. Maybe even more so. There was an update made to that bearing for the earliers 348's. I'm not totally sure but I think it was in '92?

    Well there is a shop in Santa Barbara that works on Ferrari's, Bianchi Motor Co. I have never used them and don't know the quality of their work, nor their pricing, so I can't really recomend them. I just know that they are in SB.

    Erickson Auto in Ventura is local to you. Bill worked on my car when I first got it and has given me tons of advice. Great guy who does good work at a decent price.

    You can also try Blackhorse Motors in West Los Angeles http://www.blackhorsemedia.com/index.html . Carl is pretty cool and has given me a bit of help.

    Ferrari Service of Costa Mesa is also another shop I recomend http://mysite.verizon.net/res1la3r/index.html. I have pruchased some stuff from Michael before. He is another great guy to deal with, and yet another one who has give me advice.

    But Eugenio is the man. http://www.eugeniosferrariservice.com/ He specializes in Ferrari V8's. If you take your 348 to him you couldn't have it in better hands. Eugenio is totally helpfull and is a very detailed mechanic. Fantastic guy to deal with.

    Heck, all the guys are great and you really can't go wrong with any of them.
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    LOL isn't that the truth :D
     
  14. eurocardrvr

    eurocardrvr Rookie

    Jul 20, 2006
    22
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Wil
    I know exactly what it may be. I had a 90 VW corrado. And made the whining noise and would shut off. It could be the fuel pump.
     
  15. liebkid

    liebkid Karting

    Mar 6, 2006
    161
    Back to the water!
    Full Name:
    Darth Diggler
    Thanks for the input but cannot be fule pump. I know how that sounds. It is a constant pitch noise. The noise I have is not constant. It goes higher in pitch as the engine revs up... belt, bearing... that type...
     
  16. Ferrari348turbo

    Ferrari348turbo Karting

    Nov 22, 2005
    208
    Florida
    If the belt is making the noise then the whinning sound should be louder when the motor is hot, and not as loud when the motor is cold.
     
  17. liebkid

    liebkid Karting

    Mar 6, 2006
    161
    Back to the water!
    Full Name:
    Darth Diggler
    Actually, as I went yesterday on a drive with a group here in SB yesterday, I and a couple other people trying to give me their input on the matter, noticed precisely that. That the noise is hardly noticeable the first minute or two when the car is cold started, and gets louder as the engine gets warm tyill its clearly heard, specially between 1500 and 3000 RPMs!
     
  18. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Does.....it.....happen.....when.....you.....push.....the.....clutch....in......??????
     
  19. WillW

    WillW Karting

    May 23, 2005
    209
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Ville
    Exactly... ;) Mine had similar whine, then increased and eventually screamed when clutch was pressed. If so, clutch release bearing is gone, not too much $$ luckily.
     

Share This Page