96 Spider Power Seat not working? | FerrariChat

96 Spider Power Seat not working?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Roger348, May 27, 2017.

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  1. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
    Full Name:
    Roger Cody
    #1 Roger348, May 27, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok, so I'm working on the wife's F355 Spider to resolve the potentiometer, and the I've got no power to the seat but the Drivers seat works fine. I can hear a relay clicking but no power at the plug for the passenger seat. I've applied 12vdc to the seat and it works in both directions. Is the Roof ECU tied into the power to both seats?
    Any and all help is most welcome!

    Here is the ECU at the roof pump assembly


    Roger
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Tridentecavallino

    Mar 15, 2013
    93
    Germany
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    Thomas
    #2 Tridentecavallino, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    Hi Roger.
    I think the relais for the non working seat is gone. Indeed the power signal to the seats is given by the roof ECU (via relais).
    According to my research the relais used in the roof ECU are Siemens (now Tyco) V23081-C1061-A303. These relais are directly soldered onto the circuit board, so no real "plug and play".
    Before trying to replace the relay I would recommended to check the cable harness between ECU and the non working seat.
    Thomas
     
  3. Tridentecavallino

    Mar 15, 2013
    93
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    About one year ago I ordered a pair as a reserve for my F355.

    I only received one V23081-C1061-A303 and one V23081-C1059-A303.
    I was told V23081-C1059-A303 is a compatible number but I did not get a proof that this is correct.
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    "Resolve the potentiometer"? Just to clarify, Roger, is it only the passenger seat you are having problems with?

    According to a 1994 diagram, all seat power/control goes through the roof ECU, even when the seats are operated manually (I assume the later models work this way, too).

    Do you have no power to the passenger seat potentiometer and the motor?
     
  5. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
    Full Name:
    Roger Cody
    Thomas, thank you for your reply. I'll look into ordering two of these relay's
    Ian, yes I've repaired the broken potentiometer on the passenger seat and at first it would only travel in the Back direction, but not forward and now it will not move at all you can hear the relay clicking but no movement, I've checked and there is no 12vdc at the seat connection, as for the driver seat it works in both directions. And of course the roof does not work with console switch it just beeps, the only way to open/close roof is with the bypass switch.

    Roger
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    So the potentiometer is not getting power either? My roof ECU diagram shows separate power outputs for the motor and potentiometer. I thought perhaps that the potentiometer should have power to it all the time, not just when the motor was activated.

    Roof ECU pinout
     
  7. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
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    Roger Cody
    Ian, thank you for schematic I'll test the outputs and see if there is power.

    Roger
     
  8. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
    Full Name:
    Roger Cody
    #8 Roger348, May 27, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    ouch... Good luck, Roger... I believe those units are unobtainium...

    By the way, would you have a picture of the other side of the board (just curious)? Thanks.

    Cheers.
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    By the way, the diagram shows a direct connection between the window switches and the roof control unit. I'm not sure if this is correct for later model cars. I think the window switches send signals to the Window Control Unit and that communicates with the Roof Control Unit.

    I stand to be corrected :D
     
  11. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
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    Roger Cody
    I've soldered a piece of wire to repair the damaged area, and so far it looks as if it is working again. I'll know more on Monday when I start to reassemble the interior.

    Roger
     
  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Excellent. I wonder what caused the problem in the first place (I would heed Thomas' advice and make sure the wiring is ok from the ECU to the seat... e.g. look for shorts to earth with the motor disconnected. Perhaps even check the current the passenger seat motor is pulling in both directions (compared to the driver's seat).
     
  13. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
    Full Name:
    Roger Cody
    Ok, so I've just reinstated the ECU and the interior as well as the LED lights. Great, well almost? The lights looks great, the interior looks great, but the roof, well lets said it's a wonderful work of over engineering. The ECU looks to be the last issue, per the last posts I've repaired the burnt wiring inside and reinstalled and it powers the windows the seats and it will close but not open the roof, so I'm leaning towards the ECU is toast?
    If anyone out there has any experience in this area I would sure like to hear your views on a resolution.

    Cheers!
    Roger
     
  14. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
    Full Name:
    Roger Cody
    Ok, so I've just reinstated the ECU and the interior as well as the LED lights. Great, well almost? The lights looks great, the interior looks great, but the roof, well lets said it's a wonderful work of over engineering. The ECU looks to be the last issue, per the last posts I've repaired the burnt wiring inside and reinstalled and it powers the windows the seats and it will close but not open the roof, so I'm leaning towards the ECU is toast?
    If anyone out there has any experience in this area I would sure like to hear your views on a resolution.

    Cheers!
    Roger
     
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #15 Qavion, May 29, 2017
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
    Does the roof appear to be trying to move to open or is there no movement at all? This might point to a mechanical problem rather than an electrical problem.

    It is possible that there is more than one problem (or that the burnt track was simply a symptom of an underlying problem)

    Something which may be worth looking into (but probably wouldn't cause the board damage)...

    Thomas mentioned relays on the ECU board, but the system wiring diagram shows two simple external relays. The parts manual on Ricambi also indicates there are two external roof relays (but only seems to show one). These basically reverse the polarity on the roof motor (for closing/opening). One must be relaxed while the other operates. I'm wondering if one is not activating or one is not relaxing properly, causing the other to not control the motor. Unfortunately, they are located in the same area as the ECU (I guess you've put all the console back together?). The part number is #157992. Not too expensive, a common Bosch 5 pin changeover relay (possibly P/N 0332209159, also found on your main relay panels).

    Sorry, I've just noticed a relay labelling error in my diagram... I've uploaded a modified version.

    Roof Diagram

    Of course, there could be many other possibilities... Have you read the forum messages on roof piston position switches?

    Cheers
    Ian

    (EDIT) Sorry, Roger, disregard my external relay solution. I see the bypass switches use the same relays. If both your bypass switches are working, the relays must be fine.
     

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