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99 355 F1 won't leave neutral

Discussion in '348/355' started by hallsdad, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. hallsdad

    hallsdad Karting

    Mar 6, 2010
    88
    Cayce, SC
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Hi, I beg for your input since my car needs to be relocated due to an out of state move in less than a week.

    To give all the details, I had an issue just over 2 years ago and it involved the pulse sensor which I replaced. After this was done, Hurricane Florence came through and I had other priorities to deal with....long story short the car sat on the lift and I just got her running (ran like crap for about 5 minutes then sounded like I remember) last weekend and I thought it would be ready to load on a trailer.

    I'm now left with only a couple days and the car will not leave neutral. I have the pushing option but would prefer not to have to. The fluid level seems ok, but a little low. All doors and engine/trunk compartments are closed (my gas lid does not seem to open however).

    Please let me know any ideas you may have since this group has been an amazing resource in the past.

    Thank you,
    Steve
     
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  3. FLORIDAsnakeEyes

    FLORIDAsnakeEyes Formula 3
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    Jul 7, 2015
    1,146
    Sarasota, Florida
    Full Name:
    OC
    From what I understand, the level of fluid is paramount for the F1 to work correctly.

    Sent from my SM-F900U using Tapatalk
     
  4. 0.0.1.99

    0.0.1.99 Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2012
    419
    Carolinas
    Full Name:
    Ken
    There are a couple of ways to force a gear that are undocumented AFAIK. From memory, you just hold the brake pedal and pull the paddle for 5-10 secs. I remember being in a similar predicament years ago (could not grab neutral or 1st, not sure) so I called Casey @ FCI in Greensboro and he walked me thru it. There is a lot of helpful info also in this thread: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/transmission-wont-shift-at-all-f1.548055/

    Finally, consider performing the soft reset (mentioned in the thread) and also the actuator test which will confirm that the actuator is not bound due to obstruction from failing engine mounts. Here is actuator test procedure:
    1. Turn key on, I wait maybe 2 secs
    2. Press and hold (for duration, until success beep at end) AUTO button on center console
    3. Press and hold (again, for complete duration) accelerator down to floor
    4. Press brake twice then hold (again, for duration) on 3rd time
     
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  5. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
    6,819
    Kzoo Michigan
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    Johnny
    How do you know the speed sensor still isn't an issue.
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    For info... That's unrelated. The gas lid has it's own dedicated relay and fuse.

    Can you get reverse to engage?
     
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  8. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 9, 2010
    18,089
    WI
    Put it in AUTO and see what it does. If it gets you a gear, then get it on the trailer and deal with it later.

    The hard reset for the F1 sensors is this:
    -Start car and let idle.
    -Put foot on brake and hold it there.
    -Turn ignition key off while holding the brake
    -Count to 10
    -While still holding the brake pedal, start the car.
    -Hopefully, select first gear.

    The above resets the sensors if they get out of sorts. It has saved me twice.
    Use this if you shut the car off while it was still moving.

    Given the gas lid issue (unrelated as Ian notes) I would check the F1 fuses as well.
     
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  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    #7 Qavion, Nov 11, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
    Can you hear the F1 pump running? If you can, the bigger fuse (pump fuse) will be ok.

    If the pump is running, the smaller (F1 TCU) fuse may be ok as the TCU controls the pump relay.

    (EDIT: The TCU also controls the starter relay, so I assume the TCU fuse will be ok.).
     
  10. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 9, 2010
    18,089
    WI
    Good point. I am assuming the pump is running, the dash light blinks and goes out and the system is charged.
     
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  11. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

    Apr 1, 2009
    2,069
    VA
    Full Name:
    Scott
    It would help allot of Hallsdad could post a more descriptive narrative of what is going on. When you get in the car and turn it on what do you see and hear? Does the light flash and the pump run? Is it in Neutral? Does anything happen when you put your foot on the brake and attempt 1st gear, any beeps, whirring noises from the pump etc?
     
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  13. hallsdad

    hallsdad Karting

    Mar 6, 2010
    88
    Cayce, SC
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Ok, my wife and I got the 4 post lift dissembled...damn that was exhausting.

    I just went out to the car and when I turn the key the transmission light goes on and pump primes and then stops as it should. I was afraid to try and go into first since I need reverse to get out of the garage. I put it AUTO and still could not get out of neutral.

    I think for purpose of the move I’m leaving it in neutral and work on it later. I did notice for the first time today that the suspension light came on. Before the car became lift bound and the pulse sensor was replaced I had issues getting into neutral a couple times. All of this leads me to think the mounts may need replacement.

    Thanks for all the suggestions and if more thoughts come based on this post, please continue to post them.

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  14. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 9, 2010
    18,089
    WI
    If you start and the stop the car three times in a row without moving it, the suspension light will come on. The ECU thinks the sensors are dead as there was no feedback.
    Once you do get the car running, driving it 20' or so will restore data from the sensors ot the ECU and the light will go out.

    The pressure sounds like it is working so it is most likely electrical.

    Did you try resetting the F1 sensors with the foot on the brake / engine off / on trick?

    Can you select reverse????
     
  15. hallsdad

    hallsdad Karting

    Mar 6, 2010
    88
    Cayce, SC
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I did try the foot on the brake several times to ensure that I was doing it correctly. Unfortunately, no luck. Glad to know about the suspension being a nonissue.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  16. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    #13 Qavion, Nov 13, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
    Do your brake lights actually work? It will tell you if your brake pedal switch works.

    I did see an brake pedal input into the F1 system in the workshop manual and in the wiring diagrams, but I couldn't make any sense of the text in the manual (I don't own an F1)
     
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  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    If your brake lights don't work, apart from the pedal switch, there is a brake light fuse required for operation. You don't need to pull the car to pieces to check the fuse... just see if your windscreen wipers work (same fuse).
     
  18. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    Sep 9, 2010
    18,089
    WI
    Holy smokes....I forgot all about that.

    I had a brake light burn out at a car show years ago and it blew the fuse when it did.
    First gear was non existent and I couldn't leave.

    My buddy's gave me a push so we could move the car out of the road and once rolling I could get 1st gear and beyond....I just couldn't stop anywhere unless I was pointing downhill. haha

    Got home and found the fuse for the brake lights had blown. The ECU thinks the brake pedal isn't being pushed.
     
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  19. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Feb 20, 2015
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  20. hallsdad

    hallsdad Karting

    Mar 6, 2010
    88
    Cayce, SC
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I forgot to mention I can not select reverse.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  21. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    #18 Qavion, Nov 14, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
    Not sure if you understood from our latest messages, but no matter how hard you press on the brake pedal, it won't help you change into any gear if the brake pedal switch is broken or the fuse is blown. The brake pedal position sensing system doesn't use pressure. The brake pedal only has to leave its fully up position by a few millimeters and the switch is activated. The microswitch plunger could be jammed inside the switch casing.

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  22. hallsdad

    hallsdad Karting

    Mar 6, 2010
    88
    Cayce, SC
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Thank you all for the suggestions. The car got moved (pushed) into its temporary home while our garage is being built. Once it’s home I will go through each item above to hopefully find the issue at hand and post the fix... assuming it finds one. Thanks again, I feel so grateful to have such a resource.
     
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  23. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,629
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Keep us posted I’m def curious
     
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