What are scheduled maintainence items and what do they run for a 996 turbo?
Maintenance is literally just like the NA versions, until you get to the clutch, turbos and increased tire wear. At 60k miles, I just replaced the clutch ($2,600) and still have the original turbos. Its amazing the level of performance you get (500 hp on mine) for spending less than $0.10 per mile for non-oil change related maintenance.
$.10 a mile huh? how much are oil changes and waht not? (assuming at a dealer)? What mods do you have?
Actually less than 10 cents per mile...... No reason to get an oil change at a Porsche dealership (they charge $300)........my indy does it for $120 Flash and exhaust are the mods.....another strong point, I bought 80 hp for $2,500 for flash and used exhaust.
The legend has long been that they are no different than an NA 911. The maintenance hogs were the 928 (ironically) and now I am hearing stories about the Cayenne.
Very reliable? Go ask around other high performance owners (BMW M, AMG, Audi S, Ferrari, Lambo) and ask if they can motor around for $0.10 per mile. Have an FVD flash, but at the basic level I'm at they are pretty much equal.......when you get to the 700 hp level though there are differences.
Quite frankly, I don't think that .10 a mile is realistic. That would be around $10K for a 100K mile driver - and I don't think you would want to drive a 911 that has been maintained that way. My 1996 993 Targa (Daily driver, 98,400+ miles and still going good) has had the following: (I bought it at 42,000 miles around 8 years ago)... Tires: 3 sets, plus new rears this past spring. I use Michelin Pilot Sports after playing around with Khumo and Bridgestones. They run about 1300 per set, so figure around $7500 for a 100K mile driving experience. Wheels: The Targa has a special 3-piece wheel design that is no longer available. Two of them have developed cracks that allow pressure to be lost. We rebuilt them (they heliarced the cracks and lathed them off again)...$300. Engine: The 993 has an issue with the valve guides. They wear down within about 50 to 60K miles and then you start getting a Manifold Air Pressure light on your ECM. This prevents you from passing your emissions test. The only thing for it is a top overhaul - RUF Auto Center here in Dallas did mine for approximately $6,000. I have also had the fuel control relay go out, and the engine idle control module fail. Three times the coaxial belt that drives the alternator (but thank God not the cooling fan one) has gone down. The oil seals on the valve covers needed replaced about 50,000 miles. Figure about another $3,000 for just general maintenance. Battery: My car went unbelievably to 80,000 miles on the original battery. Then, I went through two of them in short order. Hans at RUF eventually found that my underhood light was not going off and running them down. Figure about $300 here. Transmission: No gear troubles, but the clutch needed replaced at around 65K miles. Again, engine out - it cost about $2K Brakes: I have done the pads twice, and just this past August we put on 4 new rotors and replaced the ball joints on the front. Also put in new bushings on the front antiroll bar. Figure about $2500 for the 100K miles. Air Conditioning: Figure to recharge it about once every two years at around $250 per time. (once you get past the 50K mile mark, I mean) My evaporator eventually gave up a severe leak (and you have to take the car apart from the front trunk, taking out the gas tank to get at it)...$2,000. General Maintenance: I change oil (Mobil 1 synthetic) about every 10K miles. So, that would be 10 times per 100K miles - about $2,000. Such other little things like light bulbs, power window switches, little plastic interior fittings, figure about $1,000 for 100K miles. Such is life. OK, so what have I added up here to scare everybody to death (and get me a divorce if this is ever seen by She Who Must Be Obeyed) - about $27,500 for a typical run of 100K miles. That comes out to be about 0.275$ per mile. And I submit that this is not really all that expensive, at least compared to the at least $1.00 per mile for a Ferrari.
I just brought my Cayenne S in for service. $450 for the 20,000 mile service, $1200 for 40,000 and about $500 for the brakes. plus i only get about 15-20K miles out of my tires.
You haven't owned a modern Porsche for 60k miles, so quite frankly have no idea what you're talking about. It just so happens that the 996TT is a very reliable car. Will anyone guarantee all Turbos will be this inexpensive to run? No, but my story is certainly not unusual. And yes, as the car ages costs will increase. But its the best high performance option out there for the regular income car guy. Here is a thumbnail sketch of my non-oil change (Mobil 1 every 7k miles - about once a year currently) expenses: ECU programming (had a cold start problem) - $268 Clutch accumulator - $280 Battery - $120 Clutch (my costs being higher since I replaced it with a 600 hp rated unit) - $2,600 (could have saved $600 going to stock) Suspension - replaced tired suspension with JIC coilovers - $3,000 (could have saved $1,500 if I wanted to go with stock) Tires - On my 3rd purchased set - $1200 each (I buy cheaper Kumhos.....they're soft but wear well) So thats $7,768 that I HAD to spend (assuming stock suspension and clutch) - I forgot to add tires to my original estimate for a total of 12.8 cents per mile. Of course the modibility of these cars is insane......so you WILL spend more to get it the way you want it
OK, so I am again told (I have owned 8 911 cars going back to my first new one in 1969) that I don't know what I am talking about. However, my mechanic tells me that in reality the 993 is probably the more reliable car, and less expensive to keep, over a long term than the 996. Whether the 997 improves on that remains to be seen. You ignored some of the very real day to day costs that I outlined on the 1996 993 Targa. They may not be "unexpected", but they all add up to maintenance cost. Again, the heavy costs will come when you want to drive one of these past the warranty, and then on past the component life of things like brake disks, clutches, a top overhaul, and so on. My 993 went about 65,000 miles before these things started, and now I have most of them taken care of. This is something I choose to do, as I have not yet cared for any of the water cooled models of the 911. I will say it again - none of the 911 cars can be viewed as a real maintenance bargain. They are expensive cars, and best left to people who can well afford them. For really cheap performance & also cheap maintenance, there is always the hated Corvette.
Interestingly, my mechanic says just the opposite......as long as you are talking about a 996 with a GT1 engine (Turbo, GT3). His stance is the 993 is so labor intensive since not much thought was given to servicing back in the 60s when the car was first designed. He says you have to take so much apart to do anything. I think we've beat this pretty much to death. A 996TT being more reliable and cheaper to fix than any other high performance semi-exotic (Aston, Lotus, etc) out there, not to mention the true exotics. I second the suggestion on a Corvette (I've had 4) although they make son damn many these days (45k a year), I'd opt for a Viper instead. Just curious since you keep good records, how does your Zr-1 and Testarossa do on a cost per mile basis?
Well, you are asking some pretty embarrasing questions there, Shark. Don't tell my oriental GF. First off, I didn't intend to start a dead dog beating contest - what I posted was just my own reality with the 993 up to the 100K mark. My purpose was to try to give a little precaution to those who might want to get into one of these Pcars maybe a little over their heads and not leave anything over for maintenance. I have not had the Testarossa quite long enough to really tell. It had 21,700 when I got it in late winter 2007, and now is at 23,800. I have spent a little over a couple thousand on it so far - two alternator belt replacements, and then a third with an alternator rebuild. Replaced the front bushing on the transmission shift rod, which ran about $600. Oil change, and a couple little idle speed adjusts. It will need engine out at the 25,000 mark or so. The ZR-1 has really been very maintenance free except for three mechanical incidents...first, they nearly all eventually rub the power steering high pressure line against the bottom pulley on the engine. That is about $250. I lost my crank position sensor (which takes out the whole ignition system) and this turned into a $700 fiasco because you have to pull the plenum to get at it, and also because Chevy put out a batch of them wired with reverse polarity and we had to do it twice. Then, I had the 16 injectors flowchecked and cleaned which is another plenum pull and about a grand. One set of Michelin Pilot sports so far. It had 14500 when I got it in 2000 and now is at just over 33,000. I change oil once a year and put the big unibelt for the acc drive on as a precaution last time. It takes as much Mobil One as a 911, but is not a true dry sump system. My 2004 Z06 Vette now with about 35,000 miles has not yet gotten into any big non-warranty items. So, I would rate them Z06 < ZR-1 < P993 < Testarossa in increasing cost...about what anybody would already expect. The old ladies Miata has of course been the cheapest of them all~
Many stories on the 996TT going 120k miles with no major expenses. One I'm aware of with X50 option has 150k. This has the Lemans winning GT1 block. As stated above a flash and exhaust get 600 reliable hp. This is a supercar, yes I said supercar, bargain. Shhhhh.
My friend asked me to run the numbers for him on his McLaren F1. Over $25/mile. Makes a private jet look cheap.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! does that include the cost of the car? or des it need a new motor every few hundred miles?
No, doesn't include the cost of the car. Maintenance items are expensive! The engines are stout, I haven't heard of one blowing up yet. I know Lewis Hamilton broke the transmission in one recently. A replacement of one of those will run you over $100K. If I'm not mistaken, the catalytic converters are something around $20K apiece; and there are four of them.
I had the opportunity to chat with a local fellow who owned an F1 a few years back. He told me all sorts of wallet-shrinking stories about the car. Blew a tranny when a pro Forumla 1 driver took it for a spin around a track....$150k. Major service - car was shipped to Germany. Last time I saw the car the owner was riding shotgun (left or right, I'm not sure) while his friend drove. Obviously, he not being used to the center driving position, cut a turn short and tore up from the front lip/fascia of the car. Cost to fix....unknown but the owner sold the car not too long afterwards.
11 quarts of Mobile 1 oil, 2 filters and eco service but to be fare this was about 8 years ago and it was a 993. Still I can't see it going up to $300 using M1
At a dealer, an oil change is often combined with a minor service so that could account for the $300.
Every air/oil cooled 911 suffers from gaskets leaking oil(causing check engine lights on 964-993), there was no permanent fix for this even on 996+. OBD2 993s suffer from premature valve guide wear as a result of emission control device failures, that is a 4-5k job causing check engine lights and failed emissions tests. 95's were OBD1 so they are more reliable. Honestly the most reliable 911 were/are the 78-89 3.0 and 3.2 lighter Carrera's. Simplicity at its best.
