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997TwinTurbo 0-60 3.4 so, F430???

Discussion in '360/430' started by Testacojones, Feb 14, 2006.

  1. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,711
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    This is the first time in 25 years that I have not owned at least one Porsche, and soon I will be on the hunt for a used 997S. I no longer measure car by how fast they can reach 60 or even the 1/4 mile. I can not drive like that where I live. I have been a member of this forum, a Porsche, forum, a Mercedes, BMW, Mini, Land Rover, and Corvette forum, in the past 10 years, and their are some people who are truly passionate about what ever brand they own and others like me who enjoy any car that can move you to feel something from behind the wheel. I have never driven a road car with better driver feedback than a Ferrari and to me it is the ultimate drivers car, not the fastest and I could care less. My favorite time to drive my car is early morning right as the sun comes up, have the local twisty roads on to myself, just me and my car (whichever one I'm driving) I guess what I am trying to say is each car has a different value to each person.
     
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  3. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,253
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Where are these sub 100K 360's? I have 2 friends in the market at that level and so far, they have come up empty.

    Dave
     
  4. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Surely you don't want to compare 360 depreciation rate to Porsche TT. It would make your argument look very weak. The TT is probably depreciating at a rate 5 to 7 times faster than the 360 (roughly 15%/yr vs 2% for 2003 MY).

    Gary
     
  5. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    I've seen several in the FML over the last few months.
     
  6. LW RedTR

    LW RedTR Karting

    Jan 12, 2006
    173
    California
    No, not my Testarossa. My Range Rover Sport. Of course I get to pick the terrain :- )

    Just pointing out how silly all of this is. The 2003 Viper I traded in for my Testarossa outperforms the Testarossa in every category, and that in turn has been bested by the latest Corvette Z06, which in turn can be beaten by several modified Subaru WRX STi s and a few Evos. I've never owned a turbo Porsche, but I owned 3 911s over the years, and I understand that the turbos are quite the rocket.

    I've even been warned not to do any drag racing style starts with the Testarossa, at all. Plus it's heavy. And wide. And the steering and clutch are heavy.

    So why would anyone want a Classic Ferrari instead of a Corvette Z06, at all?

    I know my answer to that. I think each of us needs to come up with their own answer as to their preference in vehicles, purchase that vehicle, and be so happy with their choice that they don't need to justify it by bashing anyone else's ride. We each buy what we want to the point of what we can afford, or we wouldn't be "car enthusiasts".
     
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  8. napoleon

    napoleon Karting

    Dec 23, 2005
    158
    I would like to have details about tiptronic s, I can´t believe that improvement in acceleration.

    The tiptronic gearbox was all but good.
     
  9. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,139
    Terra

    I guess not 2 years for a brand new TT, I can get one by this years end.
     
  10. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,253
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Just checked FML from 11/5 to current issue, cheapest was 114,500. Cheapest currently available is 117K at the new auto toy store. I have seen a couple priced just under 100K in the last year, but they were very high mileage (40-60K) and usually Euro cars to boot.

    Dave
     
  11. GR 360

    GR 360 Karting

    Jul 22, 2005
    214
    No, but you must see this as a indication! At a glance you can see, how fast this car is!
     
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  13. RaptorAKL

    RaptorAKL Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2003
    451
    McLean, VA
    0-60 in 3.4 seconds? The rear-engine placement and AWD have typically given Porsche Turbos incredible explosion off the line, but I still find that hard to believe considering the power/weight ratio of the car and the performance of it's predecessors and competitors. I wanna see an independant test. However, given that we've seen a Z06 go 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, an F430 do it in 3.5, and a SL600 do it in 3.6 in C&D alone, I wouldn't call it impossible.

    As for the whole Porsche vs Ferrari fanboy thing, it's kinda silly. I've always viewed Ferraris as the ultimate sportscar for several reasons, but being a Ferrari enthusiast does not necessarily mean having no respect for other carmakers. I find Porsches fascinating cars and see no reason not to own one at some point; same goes for (gasp) Lamborghini.
     
  14. JeffB

    JeffB Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2004
    1,121
    Northville, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Jeff B
    Leave it to Porsche to stick with almost the same design as the previous model. I still have my 996TT, but will be selling it soon, as I've had it for a couple of years now and replaced it as my daily driver. I enjoyed owning it a ton, but I wouldn't take the 997TT for 1/2 of what they're asking. It needs a new look IMO.
     
  15. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    29,415
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion


    930 turbo , 964 turbo ....
     
  16. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,253
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Actually, I have found this is not a good indicator as to how a car actually feels on the road. Lotus Elise is a good example. Reports show this is fast 0-60, as fast as the Subie STI. I owned both at the same time and can tell you the Subie feels much faster and on track day comes off corners much quicker. They can get quick times with the Lotus by revving 8K and dropping the clutch but it doesn't translate into real life or even track day. The little motor lacks for grunt.

    Dave
     
  17. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    Are you looking at the offical numbers, or the real numbers? You have to remember. This is Porsche. They put two engieners in the car, fill up all the fluids and don't burn the clutch. This is not a certain prancing horse italian car maker where the car is running on fumes, there's a 40lb midget at the wheel and they've fitted a turbo-charger just for the test.

    Thats what this is. Porsche claims 3.9
     
  18. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,139
    Terra
    ^^^ I know you're talking about 0-100kph which equals to 0-62mph, but some people change one for the other and change the specs.

    Lets stop the confusion that some may have or could cause, Porsche claims 0-60MPH in 3.4 seconds with the 5 speed tiptronic and 3.7 seconds with the 6 speed manual. That is fast as hell and everyone did care a lot when it was thought that the F430 was 3.5 seconds to 60mph, we were happy then, but it sounded too good to be true and thats the way it ended. Porsche is claiming the 3.4 seconds and we know this company is very conservative about claiming acceleration times, so we should be happy again that there is another kick ass car out there and one which will deliver Enzo or Carrera GT acceleration for a fraction of the cost.
    Zero to sixty isn't all about a performance cars, far from it, but for years it has been a very important stat when talking cars, is part of car culture and it should never be ignored.
     
  19. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    Sounds good to me...
     
  20. Doug H

    Doug H Karting

    Apr 17, 2005
    235
    505 pounds of torque at 1,950 RPMs does some amazing things for acceleration times.
     
  21. ParhamK

    ParhamK Formula Junior

    Nov 14, 2005
    523
    Sweden, Uppsala
    Full Name:
    Parham K.
    I was driving my former Evo 1, 0-62mph in 3.1 sec, I got the g-tech pro log somewhere if you want me to find it. And if im not mistaken....the evo 8 spanked the murcielago around the track.
    My point is.....if you want to drive a lamborghini, pay up and drive one....the drive is excellent and is a techniqual marvel. The murcielago just begged me to rev it more, as well as the gallardo SE. But if you compare them to my rice rockets....well the exotic is going down. But who cares in the end one is driving home in his lamborghini :)
     
  22. Mbutner

    Mbutner Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2005
    1,665
    Bay Area / Washington DC
    Full Name:
    Quick Draw
    Bottom line: Another predictable car from porsche. Calm, calculated, buttoned down, but still a hell of a car. No where near the class of a Ferrari in many regards. On the track numbers can be similar, and even have the P car winning alot of objective comparos but at the end of the day, a Ferrari is a car that sits in your subconcious, calling to you, beconing you to come back to have more fun. That said, the Pcar will be a hell of a bargain used. I'd like to pick one up in a couple years when it has depreciated $30k.
     
  23. JBsZ06

    JBsZ06 Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2003
    759
    I think zero to 60mph is overated...

    The total performance is what its all about..I'd imagine the manual or pdk tranny would be the faster car except for the fact the tiptronic...w/awd and the turbos combine for a torque convertor load launch that leaps...off the line..

    No body really buys a sports car for the launch...but rather more for the total performance...and the feeling of driving a race car...

    I'd suggest the ferrari F430 is closer to formula one type racing whereas the AWD Porsche is more along the lines of great rally cars....

    I think PDK is a huge step forward yet the tiptronic convertor load makes it faster than even the 6 speed manual off the line...(but only off the line especially with AWD..)

    Both great cars....

    Today unfortunately the 911 tt is almost invincible where as the ferrari is a crowd attention getter..

    It all boils down to which type of ownership experience your looking for..IMO
     
  24. napoleon

    napoleon Karting

    Dec 23, 2005
    158
    I agree that overall, porsche is very conservative about acceleration times, but I think we have to precise that maybe they are that way talking about manual gear box and not about tiptronic ot t -s, by the way, in the tests I´ve read about porsche, boxter, s, carrera, s, s4, tt, etc (that´s not a model), I don´t think porsche is conservative, quite the contrary in the tip versions.

    On the other hand I don´t think the new 997 tt will be as good as the GT, only because of the motor disposition and the carbon fiber space frame cannot be possible, of course in my opinion.

    Cu testa"
     
  25. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,139
    Terra
    Yes I don't think it will deliver Carrera GT performance in all areas also, but for now all we got is the 0-60 mph. I also don't know about the tiptronic because all my experiences are with manual, but Porsches website is got a nice intro and theres where I saw this. One thing they mentioned was that the tiptronic has shorter gear ratios... I just hope Porsche isn't giving this numbers and at the end of the day it was all marketing, but that would be a first. I agree with you and its no way that is going to perform GT times at the track.
     
  26. LW RedTR

    LW RedTR Karting

    Jan 12, 2006
    173
    California
    I can understand it. About 15 years ago I was able to purchase an 81 911, with an auxilury oil cooler, whale tale, in red, with a sun roof and black interior. I pulled the cats, put Automotion straight pipes on, a 13 blade aftermarket fan, and a dynamite high end stereo, etc. I just loved looking at that car, loved driving it, and spent hours cleaning the stock black wheels with the chrome insets, and buying the best rubber to hold the corners.

    I've felt the same way about my latest Viper (03 SRT-10) my brief ownership of a Jag XKE striaight six in the 70s, and a Datsun 1600 with dual SUs, removable hard top (white over red) that was my daily driver.

    I think having a passion about ANY marque is easy to do for people who love cars. Certainly none of us Ferrari owners could ever be confused with people who have the common sense to buy a Prius, save the ozone, stop wasting money on hydrocarbons, or even a PUCH motor scooter. Once you are past "transporation" you are into "passion".

    Banging on one another's marques is a lot like two hunters standing in the field suggesting that the other doesn't love hunting because he has the wrong brand of rifle.

    Just my .02.
     
  27. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    1. The 360s at or around $100K are super high mileage cars and/or are ~6+ years old. The MSRP in 1999 was also only $138,225, by the way.

    2. I agree with the suggestion that these discussions are pointless. Buy what you want. That said, while I greatly respect Porsche's performance and reliability, I still simply cannot understand drooling over a 911. It's a great car, and it goes like stink. But I simply can't imagine looking in my garage at one and its making me smile. Cars are more than numbers, and if feeling that "explosion" of power were all that made a car exciting (as someone earlier in this thread suggested), then we'd all be driving 9 second Civics. Cars are about those intangibles that make it sing to your soul. And don't get me wrong, that's got nothing to do with the number of cars produced. It's about feeling crafted rather than just engineered. It's about the sounds and smells and textures. Cars are about emotion. To me, today's 911s simply aren't special enough.
     
  28. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    I hear you Larry, and if it gives you that special feeling, more power to you.
    Best,
    Z
     

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