A Career in the Armed forces instead of being an Engineer or lawyer?

I'm almost in the exact position as you, except that I'm going through the ROTC route. I'm definetly looking to be a pilot but I haven't gone through the academy route. I'm pretty close to USNA so I run into a lot of those academy cadets. From what I hear they tend to look differently upon those that don't go to the academy. That doesn't mean in a bad manner, just different. I talked to my friend's dad, he's a Capt right now, Navy. He told me that the way they see it is they had to go through 4 years of hazing to become what they have. Compare that to just a few months in basic for those OTS guys and about the same for ROTC guys. There are cadets that take that to heart more than others. He, on the other hand, has a rule of treating everyone alike, no matter where they came from.

I'm looking to be a helo pilot but have yet to decide where I really want to go, Army, Navy, or Marines. My initial bet was the AF but a cousin of mine, a Marine Medic, told me a few horror stories coming from his tours in Afghanistan and Iraq that really turned me away from the AF.

The one that stands out is of his commander and a squad of SF guys he was working with. They were on patrol in Afghanistan and were loading up into their two helos, CH-53s, when one of them gets hit with a bomb. It took out one of the helos and killed everyone in it. They later found out it was from an American F-16. He told me that if I ever join the AF I better get it straight because it's getting easier and easier to fly their planes, the least they can do is hit the right target.

Anyway, I'm currently majoring in Aeronautical Engineering and planning to tranfer to Embry Riddle soon. But as an Engineer in the military you're options are endless. With a GPA like that and good extra curricular activites you have great chances of making it into flight school.

Good Luck with whatever decision you make. Maybe we'll see each other in flight school one day

 

Do some real research about today's odds of actually getting your hands on a throttle. AF would be the choice for that. More planes. IMO the only reason to join would be to fly. Do it for 6 years then be commercial pilot of eng. Otherwise it would be low paying grind and hold off on the stars for about 25 years and some butt shining. Unlike tv shows like JAG and magnum were everyone loooks pretty and has a great time reality is different. My uncle was a jag lawyer and i spent many many weeks on different bases growing up seeing his lifestyle. He also gave me a tour of the JFK as a kid.
T

 

Exactly right. your not even allowed ot use the word I me us not even we in boot camp. Even to go to the bathroom you gotta ask person by going. Sir recruit Mitchell requests permission to speak to Senior Drill Instructo Staff Seargent Diggs Sir. ( SDI goes "what thing) Sir this recruit request permission to make a head call sir. (go thing, and hit the pull up bars on the way in and out.) The whole Military (at least Marines, and were not Jarheads the Army has much a higher percentage of dropouts than the Marines do.) Is about teamwork. If your a Officer you have to lead by example in the most extreme ways. Our CO in ITB would fill his MOLLY pack with sand bags before every hump and he would never show signs of weakness I remember Id be up at the front of the Company since i was a mortar man and i could see him and he would never ever look tired. He'd talk to us and joke around. Its hard to be a officer.

 

Tim the USAF has more tactical fighters than the Navy. USMC has
few tactical fighters compared to USAF. Compare the ratios yourself.
You have a much better chance learning what a Sidewinder is in the
USAF. Also like another poster mentioned, you have to be on the boat
5-6 months a year while you are on sea duty.

You can also join an Air Guard unit and pursue this partime in addition
to a civillian career. They like to promote their enlisted members from within for a shot at UPT. The individual units have different levels of
competition. Some units may have 20 people apply for one slot.
Other units might have five people apply for three slots. The Air Guard
is an option for both careers.

I think careers have improved for non-academy grads over the last
few years.

 

Being on Float for 6 months isnt that bad you get to go to some cool Ports. And when you get to the ports there you get shore leave and get to go out to all sorts of places all over the world. But like there saying theres a better chance of getting a fighter in the USAF (Marines do have the harrier though its not that fast but its still a pretty cool plane). You should go to some different recruiters offices and see what they have to say.But beware there known to say whatever takes to get you in.

 

Tim,

I'm an officer in the ANG. I think we rate pretty darn well, especially with the load we're carrying daily in sorties after 9/11. It used to be different, but not today. Oh... and we do train pilots, but its not easy. Most commissioned officers are either prior-enlisted (then called mustangs), or are already airline pilots. Its just an expensive gamble to send someone without either military or flight experience through commissioning and flight school. In the beginning, new ANG pilots that don't come from the active duty are full-time ANG for years.

 

lol A lot of ANG pilots have far more time in the cockpit than USAF
pilots. Also the ANG pilots usually just fly year after year. A desk
job will come knocking several times in a USAF pilots career. They will also be required to attend professional military schools that take time away from flying. The ANG pilot can attend the same school through correspondence with a small portion in attendance. Reserve pilots
attend the "same" USAF UPT course as their active duty components.
NOTHING is different. The fighter lead in course is also the same
as the active duty component. The reserve component often has
their own six month training in the tactical aircraft one is to specialize in. Their are Guard pilots with over 4,000 hours in tactical jets.
The maintainance on the jets is even better !!

 

Anyone know the exact number of planes each branch has? I once heard the Navy has the most, I know it's over 4,000. I was wondering how many the Air Force has.

 

I will differ from the majority opinion and say go to Law School. Secondly you seem to be really proud of the school you go to and mention its rankings quite a few times. My curiousity got the best of me, and I want to ask what school are you currently attending if you don't mind?

-Ryan

 

Tim you can have your cake and eat it in the ANG.

The flight surgeon for the AzANG in Tucson is also a pilot on the same
base. Add it all up he has two specialties he uses in the Air Guard.
He is a flight surgeon and a F-16 pilot. He also has his own practice
in Tucson. Not bad. He still is with the 162 TFG in Tucson.

Tim you can be a hero and an attorney. Yes Tim all fighter pilots are
heros.

Remember all units have different levels of competition when choosing
their candidates for UPT. You can always work your way back to another unit later.
Don't call up the 199th Fighter Squadron in Hawaii and ask for a seat in their F-15's. LOL
Everyone wants to fly an F-15 in Hawaii.

 

You can do both if you go to law school and do the JAG program for a few years afterwards. I'm not sure of the age you'll start law school, but guessing you start law school at 21-22, finish 24-25, do 4 yrs w/JAG and start at a law firm at 29 as a 5th-year associate pulling $175-200k and you'll still have an F-car by 30.

It's funny that this thread came up because just tonight I had another JAG pang... my Dad's a major in the AF and although I loathe the golden handcuffs he stuck with, I really admire the discipline and the experience of the military, esp. nowadays when being a gov't/military hater is still chic for many kids (although less than 10-30yrs ago). Plus, I feel a rush of family pride when I walk around the base with my old man, and most people salute *him.* He certainly earned it.

I guess I'm also slightly old-fashioned compared to other guys my age- I look at the WWII/Korea generation who had to fight and it made men of them (not that war doesn't have many negative effects)... I guess I buy into the theory that the lack of conflict faced directly by my young generation had made us soft and unpatriotic. And unfortunately even post-9/11 many people from Europe and the Democratic party tell us we shouldn't stand up for anything and embrace what will kill us. That's 38 other threads in and of itself though.

So I think I understand you Tim, for me as well I see the military and know it's one noble thing I haven't done yet to complete my life. Missing notch on the belt, if you will. But certainly law OR engineering aren't exclusive of a military career though. For me, the biggest obstacle would be getting down to the 205lb weight limit :-(...

 

I think the cut off age for UPT is around 26 1/2 ? I am not sure.

 

Thanks for answering my question. since I am also in an engineering program and live with 3 others who are in a similar program, I was just curious as to your background.

 

Aaah, I just went to the USAF JAG website and I don't think I could handle it. Not to say I'd never ever do it, but it seems unlikely.

Having the ability to choose where and what I want to practice vs. receiving orders to serve at a random base in four year contracts, for half the pay, seems kind of like giving up all the edge I worked to gain in finding a job by trying for a better law school. I'd be 30 by the time I finished the first contract, with who knows how many kids. It would sure put a damper on the F-car plan...

Sure, sure, 30's not that old in the grand scheme (even Lutz didn't finish college til 28, of course, he was from connected Swiss/NY-banker elite stock), but I don't know if I could put off more of a long-term career choice.

 

Tim,

There are a bunch of good comments that have been posted. Let me weigh in on a few highlights:

Bootcamp at Parris Island is nothing like what you would experience in the AF. The Marines would laugh at we do.

The Air National Guard/Reserves are extremely good. If you look back at the history of flying competitions like William Tell you see that many guard units won, in fact I'm pretty sure that North Dakota won the last one that was held. The pilots are much more experienced than the average active duty dude and certainly are just as engaged in world wide operations as the active duty. I had several guard students while I was a T-37 Instructor and they where by and large outstanding.

The academy is a non issue as far as I am concerned. Academy grads don't have school loans to pay back, I think that is their only advantage. Snj5 can give you a senior officer perspective, but from this former major's perspective it makes zero difference.

One last shot - Frank Parker: I would love to see a navy puke use a 150 FOOT flight deck. Fights on!

Eric

 

Good luck in your decision; if you decide to do it, thank you for your service.

 

Tim: Just two more pennies please. The individual fighter groups and
wings in The States offer different degrees of difficulty in obtaining a
slot for UPT. The units try to promote from within their own enlisted
ranks. A part-time 24 year old crew chief who has been there for three years keeping the planes flying; will have a better chance than the guy who just came from the fraternity party. You can be a member of the unit in Schnectady part-time; and apply down the road for a F-16 seat in another State. Syracuse has F-16's.

 

No. I figured you would want to be in Schenectady up until you depart
for flight school ? I assume you do not want to commute to a tactical
unit ? You will have a very difficult time going from flying trash to any
tactical unit. They now have specialized pilot training. The trash
flyers do not fly the T-38 in UPT anymore. They split up the training for trash and tactical. Advanced tactical flies the T-38 and the
heavies fly the Jayhawk/learjet.


Class performance in the early phase for the Active Component determines which class one advances to. Of course some A.C.,
students may want heavies. The fighters are reserved for the top
flyers who want that mission. The guard and reserve components are supposed to advance based on the units mission. The reserve/ANG student will have to find a heavy unit upon completion of training; if they fail to advance to the tactical program based on their flying aptitude.


You need to find any tactical unit that will sponsor you in flight school. There have been situations where a student was sent
to the heavy program and switched to the tactical program while
they were in the early phases of the program. The student found
another unit to sponsor them while they were "in" flight school.
Basically it came down to units swapping slots. This is not a
normal situation though. You can transfer from one State to
another at a later date. It is relatively easy. No one will try
and keep you in your original unit when your job requires you to
live in another area of the country.


When it comes time to apply for flight school, pick up the phone
and call around for tactical units that will hold a board for UPT
applicants. It would be advantageous to find a job in Syracuse
and apply for a tactical slot there. A few good words of advice:


Try and apply for a job on base where you actually work with the
pilots and are VISIBLE. There are always openings on the flight
line and base operations. When it comes time to apply for a job
all the key leaders will have known you for quite some time. Don't
end up working in a corner of a building on the far side of the base.
Build your own resume while working with the pilots.

Good Luck