A Cautionary Tale For Ferrari...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pearl-Yellow-E-Gear-Gallardo-Save_W0QQitemZ4599665610QQcategoryZ6290QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

that car's been on ebay for a long, long time.. i wonder if there's a story

 

yours in 4 days and 23 hours????

 

No feedback.. crap pictures. $149,000 says that car will be for sale on ebay forever.

 

Vik,

A few weeks ago there was a Gallardo at Long Island Bentley in the color that you were thinking about. Don't know if its still there, but if you want, I could swing by (I live a few minutes away) next week and check it out (if its still there). I'm going away until Wed next week, so it would be on Thurs. It was the orange metallac, and it was hot. There was also a green one, which I didn't care for. I need to put the Gallardo on my list. How's the depreciation compared to other exotics? (My wife's going to kill me). He also had about 3 Ford GT's. Since they are both coupes, you gotta consider it. And you could see them side by side, and test drive one after the other. Good way to make a choice.

Gary

 

Gary -

Just saw this. Thanks very much for the offer - that's very kind of you. I've actually honed in on the car I want and am just working out the details...of which I will share shortly.

You definitely need to put the G on the list. I was a diehard Ferrari fan until this car came along. For the first time Ferrari is facing real competition. Although Ferrari still has legions of diehard fans, some of the more practical minded - those who recognize the performance of a G and / or who can't be bothered to wait years to get a F430 are jumping ship. Ferrari is losing the game here, and I hope they wake up to this fact. FWIW, the aesthetics of a G also move me in a way that either the 360 or F430 don't.

Depreciation on MY04's I think should be in the $10K / year range. For MY05's - depending on where you pick one up - in the $10K - $20K range a year, and for MY06's...well, don't ask. -

The Ford GT does seem like a great car. I'd like to have it in my stable at some point, but for now the G takes precedence.

Hope all is well, and best wishes for the New Year.

 

Ferrari did wake up to the fact that the Gallardo exists.
Hence, 360CS: 425 hp; 430: almost 500. 430 was not going to be such a leap forward. It was going to be more like a 308--328 transition. Gallardo happened, Ferrari followed suit. As for people "jumping ship" post-F430's release, I don't think Ferrari is that bothered. They're still all sold out.

 

They need to wake up to the fact that customers are not going to keep waiting three years for an entry-level Ferrari.

They need to wake up to the fact that fewer of us are going to pay inflated premiums when equal or better alternatives exist.

They need to wake up to the fact that cars need to be made bulletproof (they are making progress here, but that too because of competitive forces).

They need to wake up to the fact that, other then entry level Ferrari's, the designs of the other Ferrari's are insipid or stagnating, and they can only rest on past laurels so much. Even the 360 / F430 doesn't do as much for me as the G from a purely visual perspective.

I point to myself as a prime example. I've jumped ship from Ferrari land. I would have never thunk it two years ago. A couple thousand more of us and that waiting list is going to get a lot shorter.

 

Congratulations, sir; A very good evaluation.
I saw that senario coming several years ago when the Lamborghini Gallardo was first put forth. Today's younger buyers were not going to follow the old guards who were willing to "kiss ass" and pay additional for the pleasure of doing it, once other choices were presented. No company is invincible.

 

This is based on what? Customers are today and will tomorrow. They are selling more cars than ever before.

This is based on what? Customers continue to pay the premiums. In any event, though the dealers care, Ferrari SPA cares little about the premiums. They only get MSRP anyway, and there are certainly more than enough buyers at MSRP.

Agreed, but (1) Ferraris are more reliable than ever before. (2) Many, though not all, would maintain that it's part of the charm; Ferrari isn't a German car, and that's a good thing.

Obviously, this is down to personal preference, and on this I generally agree with you. I think the 612 is horrid and the 575 doesn't get my blood flowing.

However, what you say is easy to say when Lamborghini offers nowhere near the model line-up that Ferrari does. Past laurels? Lambo has taken the "wedge" shape and carried it for decades, including through their current offerings. Yes, they've tweaked the design, but the general shape has been alive longer than I have. They have proven themselves capable of designing one particular type of mid-engine shape that appeals to some, but certainly not all, motorists. But other designs? Have Lambo, for instance, shown themselves able to build a 2+2? The Espada was horrible, worse than even the 612. I think your novel design argument is a losing battle, at least primarily because Ferrari is trying to do something with their model line-up that Lambo isn't - and, when they did in the past, they failed.

Again, for the reasons stated above, I don't think Ferrari is too bothered. Sales are stronger than ever before, despite countless new players on the market. No telling what's going to happen before Ferrari hits its hundredth, two-hundredth, or three-hundredth birthday, or if, indeed, if those celebrations will happen at all. But right now, to say Ferrari is "losing the game" couldn't be further from the truth.

 

My own experience. I have left Ferrari-world and jumped into a Lambo, as have many others. How many are going the other way?

My own experience. I have left Ferrari-world and jumped into a Lambo, as have many others. How many are going the other way?

This is a defensible argument? I certainly hope it's not a core part of the Strategy meetings at Ferrari headquarters.

The statement was not intended to be a comparison to Lamborghini, which I agree has not been a bastion of design creativity. However, analyze the purchase decision of any Ferrari and it involves (for the purists at least) a combination of three parts: (i) design, (ii) heritage and (iii) performance. For me the buying critera for a Ferrari are prioritized in that order. While (ii) and (iii) remain strong, Ferrari is losing out big-time on (i). You can't sit on a two-legged stool forever, and that is what Ferrari needs to wake up to.

I'm glad you think they're ok. I'm pretty sure IBM before the PC and Microsoft before the Internet Explorer (and countless other companies) all thought the same. Don't get me wrong - the situation is nowhere near as dire, nor do I think it will get there anytime soon. But the monopolistic playing field that Ferrari has long enjoyed due to lack of alternatives is no longer there in spades. Not even close.

“Competition breeds excellence.”

Let's hope for Ferrari's sake, they take this to heart. Otherwise I'm shorting the IPO.

 

If it ever got dire - which I don't see anytime soon - don't you think Ferrari would be smart enough to drop the whole insistence on front engine GT cars as their non-entry level car?

Ferrari has the funds to easily develop: (1) A little $100K sports car; (2) a $300K+ mid-engine Murci competitor. Both would sell like crazy. Ferrari chooses not to; they are sticking with the mid-engine V8 and the two V12 GT cars. Why they do this is anybody's guess. My personal supposition is that they like having a core customer base of people who are multiple-Ferrari owners. And, they think that people are more likely to buy an F430, and a 612, and a 575, each of which serves a slightly different function, than people would be to buy, say, a Gallardo and a Murci. My guess is Ferrari likes having that customer base and likes creating cars that can serve multiple purposes depending on what the client is looking for. When this stops working - and it's been working ever since the 250 GTE - there's no reason to think Ferrari won't shift their strategy.

 

We're mixing apples and oranges here. My argument is not to suggest a change in the front- versus mid-engine strategy here. It's a little more simple and a lot more wholistic: make cars that not only perform well but that inspire, and make them relatively easily accessible. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

We can argue till the cows come home on how business is great, but each (potential) customer is a story unto itself. I just relayed to you how I wasn't prepared to wait, or pay overinflated premiums and so I moved on. You'll find two more people jumping into Gallardo's in the Spring. Believe it or not, all of us are self-proclaimed Ferrari tifosi, so our / my experiences are not borne by a misguided loyalty towards Lamborghini. There is a lesson to be learned here - one that Ferrari would be foolish to ignore.

Best.

 

Vik, it's both obvious and understandable where you are coming from. Clearly, you are unwilling to pay the big premiums, and you have felt slighted in some way by the whole "list" malarkey and where you have ended up in that shuffle at the end of the day. And your response has clearly been “screw ‘em, they don’t want me, I don’t want them.” But as much as you may want to believe these sentiments are generally shared, they aren't. The waiting list is still there, for all to see. And when it's no longer there, as my post above suggests, Ferrari has the resources to put it there again.

Of course, every consumer wants a car that inspires and is easily accessible. But my point is that Ferrari makes enough cars that do inspire enough customers, to whom they are also made accessible. That is clear. If it were not so, then there would not be a waiting list making the cars unaccessible to some.

As you now suggest, this is simply your own, personal story as a buyer. Additionally, it's a position that you obviously share with other car buyers. But that there is a "lesson to be learned" in it is far from clear. Your jumping ship and buying a Gallardo because Ferrari won't sell you a car doesn't affect the number of F430s Ferrari sells in the least. By corollary, your sticking around and managing to buy a F430 at MSRP would also make absolutely no difference; it would then simply be someone other than you forced to look eslewhere. No matter what you choose to do, Ferrari will still sell the exactly same number of F430s - a number that is in fact lower than the number of F430s the market demands.

If Ferrari wanted to make its cars more accessible, it could. If it wanted to sell more, it could. That they don't may piss you off as a consumer and send you elsewhere, but as of now it doesn't affect Ferrari in the slightest.

 

A bit off topic from your guys discussion but Vik how is the search going?

 

The Dino is coming... or so the winds seem to suggest...

 

Done. Wrapping things up, and will post later this week.

 

Hey! Didn't you used to buy Ferrari's at one point too?!

 

Zach, your interpretation is off-base. To be clear, I am not personally offended by Ferrari's strategy of making customers who aren't sleeping with their dealers wait three years. And I certainly don't consider the Gallardo a "compromise" choice at all. I think it's a phenomenal car, and haven't felt this level of anticipation and excitement ahead of delivery even with my 355B. Were the F430 and the Gallardo offered up to me at the same time, I would have a VERY difficult time choosing between the two. So to be clear, you're not hearing the ravings of a disgruntled, couldn't-get-on-the-list-and-so-now-I-hate-Ferrari customer. My point is that I wouldn't have even considered the Gallardo in my blind loyalty to Ferrari had their silly antics not led me to do so. And that's really, really, really scary when you think about it.

Bottom line: let's agree to disagree here. Your posts continue to imply that it's business as usual at Ferrari - customer waiting lists are long and life has never been better. My point is that they're running harder and adapting strategy more quickly than ever before, largely because of competitive forces. Forces that they've never had to deal with before. People are leaving and not coming back and that's scaring the be-jeezus out of Ferrari (as it should be). As a result, they're being forced to reevaluate every aspect of their business, from how many dealers to have, to what kind of service levels are being provided for, to how many cars - and what models - to produce, and what kind of life cycle those cars will have.

In the years to come, and as new model generations are rolled out, I guarantee waiting lists will become shorter (but admittedly will still be there), cars will be better built with lower maintenance, and customer service - both sales and support - will dramatically improve. And although it will be impossible to prove because we will never know otherwise, I am sure all of this will be done at a pace much faster than if Lamborghini were not nipping at their heels.

The Gallardo is a huge wakeup call for Ferrari. And that my friend, is a good thing for tifosi everywhere.

I'll let you have the last word if you so desire.

 

Vik, on this point we are in total agreement! Ferrari isn't untouchable, and they know it. The Gallardo was a wake-up call for sure, and I think it's awesome that there's serious competition now at the top end. You seemed to suggest--and maybe I'm off-base with this--that Ferrari hasn't really acknowledged that they are facing competition yet, and that it's something they better do, and quick. It was this point, I think, that I was disagreeing with. I strongly believe that the F430 wouldn't be nearly the car it is if it weren't for the Gallardo. It's no coincidence that the Gallardo and F430 are both ~500hp cars, etc. Ferrari saw the challenge, and they responded. Now everyone wins.

 

Yep, and I'm heading back in that direction... again... soon.

 

What does this have to do with NY? This should be in the Lambo section.
Everyone in NY knows you can buy a new 05 E gear G from Manhattan Motor Cars for 159.995K. It's been posted in the Lambo section many times.

The reason that new M's and G's sell for below list price and 430 sell for more than list price to most is old news and has nothing to do with NY Section.

The mods should move this.

 

It has everything to do with New York. It started with a question on a New York-based Gallardo, and then evolved into a discussion between two New York residents. I think that's still allowed under the forum rules Jim.

No one's asking what MM is selling their cars for, nor generic statements. If you've got an articulate point to post either way that is additive to the discussion, we're all ears.

I'm a Mod, and I'd like this to stay here.

 

Vic
Driving away people from Rob's site IMO isn't what a mod should be doing. This is Lambo not NY. That you're personal agenda blinds you to fact proves the time has come for you to go.

 

Parachuting in with bland, generic statements certainly doesn't enhance Rob's site either, I can assure you of that.

I didn't understand your second sentence.