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A challenge to TUBI -- Tell us the truth, with data!

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by shawsan, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. shawsan

    shawsan Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2004
    1,090
    Vancouver, Canada
    Over the last year, I've searched this forum backwards and forwards to find something definitive on the purported HP/TQ gains that accompany a Tubi exhaust (in addition to the lovely music that does accompany a Tubi). While some posts argue 20HP increase, others dispute it, and there's no reference to before and after dyno results. Yet, websites of several official Tubi reps claim up to 7% increase in HP. And I reckon that hundreds of us install Tubi's not just for the music because we want to believe there's some HP/TQ increase.

    OK, so I tried to go the source. I sent Tubi emails asking them for DATA, or at least a reputable source of dyno data to support the claims several of their distributors make. And please, if there were such data supporting HP/TQ gains, could we also know if something was done to the ECU mapping as well??? BUT NO RESPONSE FROM TUBI.

    C'mon Tubi, I'm like many other ferrari owners who would like a bit of firm knowledge on this -- and I own a 2004 360 Modena with a tubi. If there are no HP/TQ gains to speak of, please say so and I'll rest my case. But if you don't reply, I'll vote to have you dropped from FerrariChat.com. or at least scorned by others on this board who simply seek to be better educated.

    In short, you owe it to your clients, like me, to respond. Thankyou, Paul

    98 355 Spider F1
    04 360 Modena F1
     
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  3. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    3,926
    Can't comment about HP on a Ferrari, but there was a famous exhaust dyno on a Porsche forum once that showed a Tubi on a 996TT LOST 4 hp because of the restrictive design.

    They sound great though
     
  4. jungathart

    jungathart Guest

    Jun 11, 2004
    3,350
    NoVA, AmeriKa
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    Komrade Jung
    And all along I was thinking that ANYTHING would help a 996! ;);) :D
     
  5. quartermaster

    quartermaster Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2005
    1,813
    It will be interesting to see what appears on this thread.
    Keith
     
  6. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,647
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    Carbon McCoy
    Tubi is one of the most beautiful sounds i've ever heard... Tubi proved their mettle(/metal:)) with the 550... :)
     
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  8. JoTeC

    JoTeC Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
    796
    Huntersville, NC
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    Joe Hullett
    Power? Hmmm... Never thought about that... I got it for the sound!
     
  9. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2003
    2,721
    Worcester, MA
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    Michael.C.James
    You might not see it on the newer Ferrari models - I'm pretty sure Ferrari engineers have taken exhaust flow into account since the 348/355 were on the drawing boards. I believe the benefits provided by new, higher-flow exhaust systems will be recognized by cars that are actually hampered by existing OEM setups - TRs, 308/328, 512BBis, 400/412, cars whose exhaust systems were hit with added requirements by US Emissions Standards but were not part of the original engine designs. These cars would probably show a boost in real-world HP gains if they had more exhaust flow. The engines would probably run cooler, too....
     
  10. Frari

    Frari Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,186
    brisbane australia
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    tony
    If you write to mille-miglia by their web cite I am sure they have data on their tubi equivalent which IMO is better than the tubi see mille-miglia.com.au
     
  11. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

    Mar 15, 2004
    12,030
    12cylinder town
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    steve
    i have had a few ferrari's with sports exhaust but not a tubi as far as i have noticed they just SOUND faster and more powerfull and that is it thats why they probably wont respond to your email
     
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  13. 15hn

    15hn Formula Junior

    Apr 6, 2005
    565
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    HN
    How can you tell if an exhaust system 'sounds faster and more powerful' especially if you have never owned a tubi?
     
  14. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Feb 13, 2004
    4,483
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    Stephen S
    I have tried the mille-miglia on my previous 550. The tone and noise was unbearable IMO.
     
  15. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2003
    831
    Full Name:
    AdK
    In Forza magazine some time ago there were dyno sheets of a 308 GT4 engine with original ANSA exhaust and after fitting a Tubi. Since I am not at home now, I can't go and find the details but if memory serves me correct there was some HP gain
     
  16. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    come on tubi...you are being outed!

    btw, i always hate when somebody says i have a tubi...kinda reminds me of a guy walking around w/ a woodie.

    not a vision i want to think about when talking about ferraris. at the very least tubi...change that bloody name!!!
     
  17. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2005
    4,618
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    Chris Marsh
     
  18. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    chris, i know...it's terrible. i've had to start looking at larini and bell systems for my boxer.

    i just could not take it!! lol
     
  19. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2005
    4,618
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    Chris Marsh

    I just read my own post "I put a Stebro on my car" now I am going to have that same visualization everytime I read "I have a Stebro"
     
  20. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,317
    Alabama (was Mich.)
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    On my TR I had a Borla system for a while and it seemed to give a little more power in the mid-range and top end. Then I re-installed the factory system which has gutted precats and cats, and I could feel a slight drop in power. The Borla is a straight through system and does a very good job. In my opinion, if the biggest flow restriction in the exhaust system is the cat convertors, then it wouldn't make any difference changing any component downstream of this. So factory muffler or aftermarket will not really change things. If the muffler is indeed the biggest restriction and the cats are at 90% (not 100%) of their max flow....then another muffler "may" increase things just a tad....but you probably couldn't tell by perceptions. There a lot of factors in the exhaust system the could skew the outcome. Maybe the only way to compare Tubi to other systems for sure is to flow test them side by side. But then again since exhaust gas flows in pulses....this too could affect the results. Hmmm...I think I'm just confusing myself here.
     
  21. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,075
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    Mike Charness
     
  22. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    fwiw, i noticed no material seat-of-the-pants performance difference between stock and tubi cans on my 550. but the audio upgrade alone was worth the price of entry. i seem to recall someone saying that the tubi cans decreased 550 output very slightly, but couldn't swear to it.

    it'd be interesting to start a poll to find out whether people changed their exhaust setups primarily for audio improvements or for power improvements.

    doody.
     
  23. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

    Feb 27, 2005
    1,171
    Congested London
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    Beau
     
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    51,820
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    Rob Lay
    I don't think a manufacturer will play the HP game and put a number down. I think you will find the only ones that do are retailers or small exhaust companies. Too many variables from car to car. What happens if they say 10hp gain, but you only get a 8hp gain? Does the actual Tubi company advertise hp gains? I think most car people in the know realize that after market exhausts aren't for any significant power gain.

    I did do a back to back dyno with stock filter vs. K&N, the K&N had about 6-10 HP gain on the 328. K&N of course advertises that HP gain too.
     
  25. MARQ

    MARQ Formula 3

    Feb 9, 2002
    1,924
    East Coast US
    Full Name:
    Marq
    Same here...and the looks of the Tubi don't hurt a bit either.
     
  26. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,003
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    Rob's point is very well taken, and from the standpoint of muffler efficiencies I speak from extensive on-hand and practical experience.

    It is very difficult to publish horsepower gains since, as Rob points out, there is great variance in vehicles, and it does not make sense to rely on published specs either.

    You would have to know absolutely everything about the vehicle to vaidate the test.

    Many times in this forum knowledgeable folks have cautioned, and very wisely so, against claims of ECU upgrades.

    The same applies to muffler designs, and I find folks spending huge dollars for the "sound" of the muffler rather than concerning themselves with the actual efficiency and overall value of the product!

    Case in point: one free flow muffler product for a VW bug presented to me for testing had tremendous claims about HP gains, etc. Upon first inspection, however, it was obvious this was a bogus muffler, because the cast iron inlet pieces on the muffler which bolted to the engine heads had 5/8" diameter inlets. The pipes on the muffler were 1 1/4". The inlet restriction was overwhelming, and there could not possibly be any gain with this muffler.

    These are the important things you have to examine. Are the manufacturer's offerings claims or fact? Do you believe everything someone tells you?

    One here mentioned a HP decrease on a Porsche from a muffler, but what a sound. What a schmuck to buy this product!

    Again, rear engine car mufflers are the most difficult to tune. Noise and expensive mufflers do not equate to HP gain. Period!

    Riverflyer did a great article on 8/14/2005 on his muffelr experiences, and again posted additional results in the Nor Cal section.

    Read these. They make considerable CREDIBLE sense. The car now performs beyond expectations, and John knows the difference. He doesn't need a Dyno to tell him what's going on. He senses the difference in the car's efficiency.

    TUBI is, most likely, not going to give anyone results. Why should they? People are buying the product on blind faith. So, why upset the balance!
     
  27. Jerrari

    Jerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 24, 2001
    5,458
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    Jerry Wiersma
  28. paul.zr1

    paul.zr1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2005
    17
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    Paul Dehnert

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