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A change at the helm and a chance to rethink

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by czlandi, Dec 14, 2020.

  1. czlandi

    czlandi Karting

    Jun 20, 2019
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    I’m sorry to hear the news of Louis Camelleri and sincerely wish him well with his recovery from COVID 19.

    As Ferrari searches for a new CEO it should really take the opportunity to rethink its current strategy. As a CEO myself working for one of the world’s largest luxury groups, I am acutely aware of the need to maintain long term brand value above all. No amount of engineering and performance will overcome negative brand perception. A lot of the price of a Ferrari is locked in brand equity.

    As I speak I can see 40 Pistas, 20 F8 Tributos and 42 812 Superfasts among the 853 Ferraris available on the UK site of Autotrader. The cheapest Superfast is £210k. That represents staggeringly unacceptable short term depreciation and is highly detrimental to the brand.

    In my case as a Superfast owner, my probably unsellable car for which I paid £370k for six months ago is barely now worth £250k according to the dealer I purchased it from. As much as I love the car, that is quite painful. This is my third Ferrari and probably my last.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Every car new is revenue to Ferrari, but the long time downside is all of these new ones you cite, being "flipped" by buyers, who historically could profit on "limited availability"..

    That no longer works with the number of units they are producing........
    40 Pistas.....wow.

    Sorry abut your Superfast, only time will tell if your value is gone, or just temporarily diminished.
    At least it's not a Porsche Panamerica....
     
  4. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Today the value play is to take whatever you would have spent on a new Ferrari in the showroom and buy a vintage car of similar price.....more fun, fewer hassles, less financial risk, etc. Or, if you absolutely have to have the latest and greatest, buy the year old car from the guy who’s taking the depreciation hit for you.
     
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  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    This is the reality of the automotive industry. Now that Ferrari is again its own company - it need to continue to focus on profit.... and share holder value / vs. long term product value for its customers. If you're in the luxury goods industry- you know that very few marques products don't depreciate - and those that don't usually are very scarce and hard to acquire. Ferrari's are unique but not all are Rembrants... the more they make the less value older cars have. However Ferrari have the unique ability to bounce back from depreciation in about 15 years... That usually does not help the original buyer... but those that purchase these cars at the bottom of the curve - usually are happy with the value that is retained.

    sadly My dad did not buy a 275GTB back in 78 for $11K.... that today would be several million..... its hard to see what today's modern cars will be worth in 20 years... or if they can be serviced at that point with all the computers. all that will do will drive the prices of vintage Ferrari's higher..... or crater the entire market.
     
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  6. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    I agree with all this - except the less hassels... think there may be more!
     
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  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    For years, Harley Davidson motorcycles had record sales in part because their new motorcycles did not significantly depreciate. Even though the engineering was questionable, their brand identity allowed them to far outsell the competition. Unfortunately, for Harley, their buyer demographic got older and started hanging it up. Today, the company is a shell of itself. Instead of reducing production, it kept ramping it up. Is there a lesson here for Ferrari?
     
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  9. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    There comes a point where I think Ferrari just needs to stop. If they keep growing, they will wash out. Ferrari has the strongest brand name in the world.

    They are legendary company with a massive history in racing and plenty of lore behind them. It was a company not everybody knew about until the eighties. Then it took off like a rocket thanks to Magnum and Miami vice.

    That is what built its status as this unattainable dream unless you knew somebody high up in the chain who could help you get one.

    You never saw one on the road..and when you did it was an event..something you talked about for days or weeks. That "thing" they had is sadly and rapidly fading away.

    The massive growth could kill the brands place in the ultra rare luxury market. It is on the verge of just becoming another over priced trinket for the semi wealthy. They need to pull back and get back to the roots and reason the company exists in the first place.
     
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  10. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    When will they give the "entry level" enthusiast a 911 GT3 Touring competitor!?

    - Lightweight
    - Spartan
    - Manual
    - Less than $200k
     
  11. Scott98

    Scott98 Formula 3
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    Whenever they get a real car guy CEO with some stones.
     
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  13. paulchua

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    Highest Enzo Era production (I will use the unconventional 1972 vs. pre-1969), the population to production rate was 1,844 to 3.8Billion.
    Let me use clean numbers, so about 1 unit per 4M folks on the planet.
    That should be the static production number. Equates to about 4,000 units per year vs. 10,000
     
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  14. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If they'd like to nominate a Las Vegas personal injury attorney, I could clear my schedule. No trials with CV right now anyway. I've always thought running a car company could be cool.

    Where do I apply? Ziprecruiter?
     
  15. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    I'm gonna challange you..you and me let's have at it!
     
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  16. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
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    #13 ginoBBi512, Dec 14, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
    Its a real shame that Ferraris are looked at as a commodity to buy and sell , like a stock trade, or that one would look at what the depreciation is before making a purchase decision . If I had an 812 Superfast, or any other modern F car , I could care less about what it would be worth at any specific time or mileage per say . I would own it for the rest of my life, same as my 328. I respect others who do whatever with their Ferraris. I can remember when I knew all the models and their respective specs , not anymore.These days I see Ferraris all over the place , all the time . So sure Ferrari is making a lot of money, because thats what they want to do, I dont think that was their motive years ago . Im a small business owner, I dont know what to say when it comes to the " Ferrari brand " what I do know, is that Ive lusted after their cars since Ive been a little boy, I love to drive , and Im glad I own the best machine in which to do that in , maybe that is what Ferrari should stand for, but then again, they wouldnt sell as many cars, because most of the people that own modern F Cars , are not drivers , or should I say, pure drivers.

    Thank you
     
  17. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    when i got into ferraris 20 years ago, i could not afford a new one.
    later on i could afford new ones, but knew better.

    i would challenge you to think about what it is that you like about ferraris, and once you have determined that, think about which model that is already at least 5 years old, can satisfy those desires.
    new ferraris are for s special group of people that do not mind the depreciation hit - i have never been that person.


    as for the brand.....well like almost everyone else these days, the powers that be at Ferrari have decided to cash in their 70 year old reputation for dollars today.
     
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  18. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    It will not last unless Ferrari share holders understand that the rarity of the cars is what makes them speacial. If they continue to ramp up..the cars will become worthless junk. They unfortunately are already on that path. Worst thing Ferrari could have done is gone public.
     
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  19. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
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    This. 100 percent.
     
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  20. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 ryalex, Dec 14, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
    Coming back to this. I would do this:

    1) rear engined V8TT sports car continues (without hybridization)
    2) SUV, in hybrid, V8TT and V12 trims. No Lusso line.
    3) Roma/Porto platform consolidated to one Roma model with hard top or spider (with the Porto buttons, not this touchpad steering wheel BS).
    4) V12 rear engine flagship, OTO only
    5) V8 and rear engined, lightweight manual entry car. Or, V6TT with the MC20 tub and the Giulia QV manual transmission. But with design language similar to the SP38 or 458MM.
     
  21. RMSK

    RMSK Rookie

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    This is my first Ferrari (812) I have not owned a car in 10 years, I have leased many cars recently. The ones I have are really fun to drive and that's what I bought the 812 for. I got here with my investments and that was with real estate. I have had about 70 cars in my life mainly for the pleasure of driving, everyone is different in their approach to life so really just go for it. You don't take life to serious you ain't getting out alive anyway !!
     
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  22. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I love this.

    :)
     
  23. EnzoItaly

    EnzoItaly Karting

    Sep 29, 2016
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    Great comment!!

    We lost interest in modern cars a couple of years ago: the more digital new cars become... the bigger the contrast with classic cars... the more we enjoy our classic cars!!!

    Even on much less exclusive new cars (BMW, Audi,..) the depreciation is staggering!
     
  24. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Try walking into a dealership and saying I'll have that with Weber's and stickshift:D
    The new CEO will need to understand and respect the history and ethos. I hope the Agnellis care enough.
     
  25. technom3

    technom3 F1 Veteran
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    I don't fully understand why people of luxury items don't understand why their item depreciates. Especially... When you are essentially rewarded for buying new...

    It's staring you right in the face guys.

    And as far as people being upset about the car a car not doing over sticker...

    I love explaining it this way... So you think... You should get all the fun of ordering a few ferrari perhaps even going to the factory and getting a magical trip and seeing the home of the thing you love the.most... once in a life time type of opportunity... Then... 500 miles sell it... You think someone should pay you extra because you got to do all that?

    What makes it so special that after your ownership and all your fun that you sucked out of it... What makes it more valuable than before? Supply and demand is the answer... But when everyone is lining up for that experience....the demand for the used car diminishes. It's pretty simple really.
     
  26. technom3

    technom3 F1 Veteran
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    Likely never.

    When has ferrari ever produced a car in that segment?

    Also... The 911 gt series cars outweigh the production of non gt series cars now... So the market place is fairly crowded.
     
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  27. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i dont think this fact escapes the OP.
    i think what is bothersome is that the initial price tag is SO high, and the depreciation is SO big and SO fast.
    and that is a different issue altogether, which is likely part of their game plan all along - namely push the retail price to the moon in an effort to make it more exclusive, but this exclusivity premium is only really desired by very few people who then tire of the shiny new toy when the next one is shown to them, at which point the car must be sold ....it is at that point that price reality sets in since the next owner is likely a more passionate car guy, instead of a 'shiny-new-bauble- guy, who knows he has choices and there is a value for the speed and tech, but that it also has a ceiling.

    so an 812 starts life at $400k for the rapper/blinger/footballer, and then drops off the cliff when it must be sold to the canny business man who knows the value of a buck, and he buys it for $250 after 12months.
     
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  28. technom3

    technom3 F1 Veteran
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    #25 technom3, Dec 16, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
    Well... I get that a little bit...

    But the car has 800hp... naturally aspriated and comes with a warranty and runs on pump gas... also if you drive it into a wall at 100mph you will walk away. This 800hp car also has very very little maintience and actually its all free for 7 years... PLUS... how many 800 hp cars 15 years ago could idle through a mcdonalds drive through and then rip 200mph on the freeway... then go back and pick up a kid from school all on the same tank of gas and same set of tires... with the A/C on full blast.


    400k for an 800hp missle is cheap when you realize the car has 170 more hp than a mclaren f1 did.



    So here is the thing... Ferrari is a business. This isn't a hobby. They aren't there to make sure your resale value stays high...There was a time where they could take that into consideration...

    however... the market has changed...

    Everyone complains that ferrari is making more cars... well... the world is making more people and also more millionaires... They have to make more.

    These new millionaires are going to spend their money.... and before... ferrari and aston and the occasional lamborghini were the only games in town.

    Now you have Porsche making cars around the 200-300k price range... Mclaren making TONS of cars in this price range... Hell even ford is making 500k cars... and a supped up mustang is 100k. Then you have covette that stepped up their game...

    The bottom line is... if Ferrari limited their cars more even at the 400k price range... you know what everyone is going to do... NOT WAIT FOR A FERRARI... There is now alternatives. They can go buy a Mclaren, an Aston, a Porsche, A Rolls Royce, A mercedes AMG GTR Black... there is pagani.... Lambo is maing great cars... you can buy an R8...

    The world has changed after 2000 or 2010. There are more cars being built in this market. They customer will not wait. They will simply buy something else and support another brand. So if ferrari limits the production... all that it will do is make their competitors more money and gain new customers.

    The market is not the same as it was.

    Depreciation is a factor.

    If you think depreciation is bad on a ferrari... buy a mclaren or a rolls royce. That will teach you what real depreciation is
     

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