A Cold Start, Rough Idle FIX!! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

A Cold Start, Rough Idle FIX!!

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by kerrywittig, Sep 8, 2009.

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  1. cdatte

    cdatte Karting

    Mar 1, 2007
    95
    san diego
    Full Name:
    Chuck
    Ok, thanks, bought it.

    Where does one get the F113A040 and F113B wiring diagram books ?

    Also what are the other relays for in that box ? there's 3 together and there's 1 other big black one, similar to one of your postings for the fuel pump I belive?
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,037
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    I've used places like www.ferraribooks.com and www.ferrariliterature.com, but I'd check with the F parts suppliers too like RicambiAmerica, T. Rutlands, etc.. Since you have a US '88, I think what you want is 509/88:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    You know the protection relay with the fuse. The other "oddball" relay is an RPM sensitive relay that disables the air injection system above ~4400 RPM when the engine is cold (but you should never be above 4K RPM when cold anyway ;)), The ...006 relay is the "cold running" relay that "tells" the injection ecus "Hey, I'm cold" (so they ignore the O2 sensors, i.e., run open-loop, and add extra enrichment for a while after start-up), and it runs the air injection system. The ...113 and ...101 relays are involved in controlling the cold start injectors -- preventing them from firing when the throttle is at the idle position and firing them when the engine is cold and the intake manifold pressure drops quickly during a throttle blip (like the acc. pump on a carb).

    PS Is your profile just out-of-date or is this someone else's TR?
     
  3. cdatte

    cdatte Karting

    Mar 1, 2007
    95
    san diego
    Full Name:
    Chuck
    probably out of date, work too much sometimes. Have the 89 mondial-t and the 88 TR
    thanks on the books, I've used them before to get the mondial docs.
     
  4. cryorunner

    cryorunner Karting

    Aug 11, 2009
    161
    San Diego, CA
    Full Name:
    James
    #29 cryorunner, Dec 9, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2009
    Alright, I keep getting chastised and berated for not having this book, but it's not for lack of trying. The 86/87 one is somehow very easy to find but I have yet to see this one available in any format or any price. I'd read, "It comes up on E-Bay from time to time," but have never seen it. Does anyone have a confirmed source for this? It would really help to have it.
     
  5. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2005
    1,668
    Ithaca, New York
    Full Name:
    Kerry David Wittig
    #30 kerrywittig, Dec 9, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2009
    I'll be damned......After getting slammed by sparta and his sidekick shamile ,when I instigated this thread...........indeed there has been progress in finding/sourcing/substituting a reasonably priced source(s) for this relay. My theory that even with limited info, one might be able to inspire others to do some detective work for the betterment of the forum as a whole, holds true!!

    All I can say is F*** you spata and shamile...................so sorry to have shown you there is a community of TR enthusiasts here that need NOT be "spoon fed" as you two want.............

    I understand that is "crude", but so appropriate to the forum, excuse me, my "percieved" schoolyard bullies!!!LOLOLOLOLOLOOL
    Kerry
     
  6. cdatte

    cdatte Karting

    Mar 1, 2007
    95
    san diego
    Full Name:
    Chuck
    thanks steve, car runs great, I put some shock mount material in the box as the relays do vibrate and one was partially out, got the book from ferraribooks.

    noticed that the 2 connectors that plug into the box have a sleeve on them that has the locking and mine are broke, can one buy just the sleeves or do you chave to but the plug and snap the sleeves out ?
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,037
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #32 Steve Magnusson, Dec 12, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2009
    Glad to hear that you're running well again. Unfortunately, like the white connectors on the fuse-relay panel, those locking rings on the C12 and C13 connector are doomed on every TR IMO.

    Go to www.amp.com (which redirects to tyco) and search on:

    206837-3 = the large 24-pin C12 connector (206837-1 would also work just fine although the shape detail on the locking ring OD is a little different)

    182645-1 = the small 9-pin C13 connector.

    I believe if you could get the "new" locking ring off of a new sample (even if you have to destroy the rest of it) it could be snapped onto the "old" main piece (after breaking off the "old" locking ring). Alternatively, if you can get the pin extraction tool, the pins themselves could just be moved into the "new" connector.

    Do a search here on "206837-3" for the earlier threads. Brian B. reported the hard part is being able to buy less than a zillion at a time -- so please let us know if/how successful you are in sourcing new ones.
     
  8. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    #33 Shamile, Dec 13, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009

    Dear Ferraristi,

    ....a "spoon-fed" holiday-gift for Kerry.

    This info is BASED on the part # provided by Cdette. I haven't been in the little black box (lately) to verify the number.....check the number before you order!


    http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&description=928+615+124+00&I1.x=8&I1.y=4&FILTER_928M=ON


    The "more info" button....

    http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=OEM-92861512400&catalog_description=Genuine%20Porsche%20Part%3A%20RELAY

    Pelican Parts is a reliable source for Porsche parts....seems some F parts too. :D


    Shamile

    Freeze.....Miami Vice !
     
  9. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Geeee thanks Santa I always wanted a sidekick and you not only brought me one early but you brought me a Fchat legend in the form of Shamile for a sidekick.
     
  10. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Staff Member Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    18,043
    San Marino, CA
    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/rules.php?

    1. General Posting Rules:
    1.1 No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another user.

    3-day vacation for Kerry. Everyone: Keep the thread on-topic - no personal insults or attacks.
     
  11. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    Bawhahaahha.......thanks for the kind words Sparta :)

    .....gee, everytime I ask Santa for a tall thin blonde (18 - 24)......I get coal.

    ....I must be doing something wrong. !?!


    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice !
     
  12. curtisc63

    curtisc63 Formula 3
    Owner

    Dec 13, 2005
    2,289
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Curtis Campbell
    Shamile,

    Remember, it is better to give than recieve. So, please send that tall thin blonde my way. ;)

    Once Santa sees this he will place you on his "nice" list and you may get something other than coal this year.

    CC
     
  13. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Ya gotta stop asking Santa Claus and ask Sandra Claus or one of her Elves. Next time I'm at the club I'll mention to her that my sidekick needs a 18 - 24 year old tall thin blonde left under his tree. :)
     
  14. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    3,187
    Atlanta Georgia
    Standing on the sidelines, with no "skin in the game" all i can say is:

    1.) Give Kerry some slack. He had a suggestion to a TR problem. he didn't have 100% of the answer, but 75% of it. Why such the attack mode by certain people here-I do not understand. Would you prefer him to not post any information/ Exactly how does that help you or anyone else.

    2.) I understand the frustration of Kerry--He final response may have been a bit coarse but he was trying to do a good thing and got slammed/flamed for it. It is this sort of gratitude that has driven guys like rifle driver off this site. (Yes he is back-thankfully)

    3.) Finally-has any one out there-ever rewarded any of these guys in a material way for their efforts? Steve Magnussen helped me out of an issue with my TR saving me a bundle of money in the end. So besides thanking him I sent him a token of my appreciation-something "tangible"-nothing much-and what it was is not relevant-but hey-his effort and sacrifice helped me out in a materially beneficial way-so shouldn't he be rewarded? I am sure there are others who have done the same or more-so nothing special in me doing that-just i wonder if we all take things too much for granted around this site?

    Just remember most of the guys doing the grunt work that we take advantage of here on F-Chat do it without reward (or thanks) most of the time. So flaming them when you are not "satisfied" with their help is just the ultimate in pettiness. Grow up people.
     
  15. oldcoin

    oldcoin Formula Junior

    May 1, 2006
    258
    Reno NV
    Full Name:
    Tony Mitchell
    Well Said
     
  16. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    Sorry, I disagree. He started indignant and ended up abusive. Very typical. I also belong to the Ford GT forum and that kind of behavior is neither necessary or accepted. Everyone freely shares information without the attitude.

    John
     
  17. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    #42 Shamile, Dec 13, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
    Dear Ferraristi,

    I will give it to Kerry.....his threads always seem to take on a life of their own. :D

    If you're going to post something technical....have a question OR an answer. I read (re-read) this thread and still came to the same conclusion....we were getting half an answer. When we asked what he found, all we got was "do the legwork" .

    Kerry has had some great finds but can go off on a tangent and...well, look no further than the door seal thread.

    When I find something, I'm all just too excited to post the information and share.....I get that impression with most on this forum. But sometimes it goes unrewarded or worse, blamed for it.....remember "twist-lock" thread?

    I really don't think there is any issue of "taking for granted" here. I try to give as much as I receive. It really comes down to the knowledge base.
    Take for example Steve Mag.....what a wealth of info! But if Steve ever posted a question, I can guarantee every single TR owner here will post with every snippet of information related to the question.

    Another example of forum kindness is Jratcliff and APA. I was doing my CV axles boots and regrease. Well, APA offered a new set of boots and grease below cost to me because he "had them on his shelf".

    Jratcliff offered and sent me his CV boot expander (not a cheap part) to me at HIS COST ! When I sent it back to him, I packed a nice Ferrari Mug in the Ferrari box purchased from the Fpimp just for him.

    So......I really disagree about the "taking for granted"

    I find the TR forum one of the best and love hanging out here.....it wasn't always that way. In the old days, I was one of the few TR defenders in all it's Miami Vice glory around a bunch of angry boxers.

    Much has changed and I think for the better. :)

    Hang around for awhile and you will see TR camaraderie that really exists here....even with the boxer girls too. :D




    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  18. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
    LA
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    Frank
    Well said Tubbs. ( I figure if we both have TRs and you are the sidekick I am Crockett so you must be Tubbs. We can switch if you want though) :)
     
  19. cdatte

    cdatte Karting

    Mar 1, 2007
    95
    san diego
    Full Name:
    Chuck
    ok, thanks It was starting to smell in that direction. I had to do lots of these on aircraft when I was an aircraft mechanic and it's looking like good ol' all day-er to get it straight.
    got some cable relief for it as well to take the load off the connector.
    I'll look into your suggestions next.
    thanks for the help
     
  20. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2012
    9,799
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Sam
    While trying to correct my idle issue, we noticed some connector locking features were destroyed. Found some complete connectors online both for ~$10 with free shipping

    https://www.arrow.com/en/products/182645-1/te-connectivity-ltd
    https://www.arrow.com/en/products/search?q=206837-3+
     
  21. Elliot Robertson

    Oct 25, 2018
    7
    Full Name:
    Elliot R
  22. kartboy1234

    kartboy1234 Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2014
    694
    Palos Verdes, CA
    Full Name:
    Michael L
    The relay fixed my issue, the fuse on top kept popping. It did it after I replaced the relay as well, but for some reason it has stopped now. I also replaced my connectors into the metal box.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
     
    Shamile likes this.
  23. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,246
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    Where is this relay located? I don't recall it in my 87 TR, Been thru most of my Ferrari.?
     
  24. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    When looking at the engine bay from behind the car, on the right side where a large and small cables connect to a triangular box on top on of the wheel well. Inside the box is where you'll find the "protection " relay.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  25. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,246
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    I never had to open that box!
     

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