A different way | FerrariChat

A different way

Discussion in 'Hawaii' started by sowest, Jun 4, 2012.

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  1. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #1 sowest, Jun 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    One of the things that I enjoy about cars from different time periods and different countries is the variety of approaches to their design and construction.

    Looking at a clutch disc like the one in the attached picture makes me think of someone being overly aggressive and ripping the linings right off the disc. In fact, this disc is perfectly normal.
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  2. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #2 sowest, Jun 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Okay what is it please?

    Trying to think why you would do it that way ... ?
    Pete
     
  4. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Pete

    The engine and clutch in the pictures are from a pre-war MG (1934 J2).The way the clutch was done is complicated and presents some servicing problems. I guess that it was done that way because it was early enough in the life of the motorcar that the accepted way of doing things that we take for granted had yet to be established. This particular engine has a number of design solutions that are different than what we would see in more modern engines. That some of these solutions are extinct shows that they weren't the best ideas. Still, looking at the engine through a 1930's lens, it was probably considered exotic and advanced at the time: SOHC, crossflow cylinder head.

    Aloha
    Larry


     
  5. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #5 sowest, May 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It has been some time since I have been able to devote time to the MG project. When the clutch is assembled, it looks conventional.
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  6. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #6 sowest, May 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The engine has a single overhead camshaft. The generator is vertically mounted at the front of the engine, driven by a gear on the crankshaft. The top end of the generator has a yoke that drives a spiral bevel gear that runs in needle bearings in the front of the head. This spiral bevel gear drives the camshaft.

    This drive arrangement makes it essential that the head is properly located when it is torqued down so that the gear and the generator shaft are in alignment.
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  7. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #7 sowest, May 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Isn't there dowels that locate the head?

    Pete
     
  9. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Pete

    There are two doweled studs in the original manufacture. This is a new reproduction block and I found that the drilled and tapped holes for the head studs in the new block were in a slightly different location. It took some doing to get the head seated in the correct location.

    Aloha
    Larry

     
  10. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #10 sowest, Dec 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was cleaning the old grease from the hubs of the MG and found that the axle was stamped: "Near" "Left" "Links" (German) "Gaughe" (French) "Sinistra" (Italian). I thought that this was interesting in itself, but I was really amazed at the font that was used. Think of the time and skill that was needed to produce the die that was used to stamp, press, or roll those words into the shaft. Certainly, nothing like that would get by the efficiency experts or bean counters today.

    I guess if the labels were deemed necessary, they would be engraved by a CNC machine....;>)
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  11. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,451
    North Pole AK
    Neat pictures, thanks for posting. Please keep this updated as you continue with the work.
     
  12. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #12 sowest, Feb 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Around Halloween of last year, I got a head start on my New Year's resolution. The resolve was to finish up some long standing projects. I am having some success...;>)

    It wasn't too unusual for pre-war and some early post-war cars to have some kind of central lube system. Most of the joints and bushings were metal to metal and needed frequent attention, unlike the service free metalastic bushings that are almost universal now. The only remnant of the central lube systems that I can think of that still exists is on the front sliding pillars of Morgan.

    The MG has three fittings at the firewall support on each side of the car. They are serviced with a hand pump gun filled with 90W gear oil. Oil travels through small copper tubes to points that require lubrication, including the spring perches and brake cables. At the fittings where multiple tubes come together, there is a small threaded sealing cap. Under this cap is a needle valve that can be adjusted to control the amount of oil to that particular bushing. This is to make sure all bushings get oil even if one is worn to greater clearance than the others.

    It does require more involvement than driving a Camry.....;>)
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  13. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #13 sowest, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The oil pump on the MG is external to the engine and, originally, no oil filter is provided. A company in England has produced a casting that bolts to the bottom of the pump with a small spin on filter.

    The original oil passage in the front housing needs to be plugged and the oil is routed into the block via an external copper line.
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  14. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #14 sowest, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Once the engine was back in the car and it was nearing the time to start it for the first time, I removed the sparkplugs, oiled the cylinders, and spun the engine with the starter motor until oil pressure showed on the gauge. Good oil pressure came up quickly and I was pleased until I noticed a significant puddle of oil under the front of the engine. The new external oil line that came with the filter kit was leaking. The line was copper tubing with special taper fittings silver soldered at each end. As the picture shows, they didn't get the pieces uniformly hot and there was a section of the join where the solder did not flow.
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  15. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #15 sowest, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A couple of years ago, I was able to get and refurbish a small lathe. It has proven to be a very useful addition. Rather than dealing with the time delay and likely frustration of trying to get a replacement oil line from England, making a new part got the project moving again.

    A piece of brass stock became end fittings and some new copper tubing replaced the original. The copper tubing sold in the normal home repair stores is made in China and it is awful stuff to work with. I got some good quality, made in USA, tubing from an air conditioning supply house. I did have to buy 50'. There will be some left over for the next time....;>)
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  16. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #16 sowest, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Please keep the photos coming. Wonderfully interesting!!

    Pete
     
  18. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Pete

    Thank you very much for your comment. I do appreciate it.

    I hope you are well.

    Aloha
    Larry

     
  19. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #19 sowest, Mar 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Pete, if your still tuned in, I put this picture up with you in mind because of the spot on question you asked earlier in the thread about whether the cylinder head was located on the block by dowels.

    This is a new gasket on the new block.The gasket fit perfectly on the original block and, by extension, on the cylinder head.

    The English are amazing in their support of their vintage cars. Almost everything is available. However, it was always "good news, bad news". The parts were well done with high quality materials, but.....almost nothing actually fit right out of the box.
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  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Challenging for you, but at least you can get them and keep these interesting cars working :)
    Pete
     
  21. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #21 sowest, Mar 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is the new crankshaft. It is a beautiful piece of work with many advantages over the crude and spindly original. It is much stronger and stiffer than the original as well as being fully counterweighted. The engine has only two main bearings, a large ball bearing at the front and a babbitt lined bronze bush at the rear. The new crank has larger diameter crank pins and comes with a set of much stronger rods to match. The rods use modern shell bearings in place of the original poured babbitt. The rear flange also had larger holes to accommodate stronger flywheel bolts.
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  22. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #22 sowest, Mar 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2009
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    Oh that's nice stuff Larry!
     
  24. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    That reminds me of some of the English made reproduction parts we get for Ferrari. Often requires some creativity to make it all work.

    I notice the shape of the hole in the head gasket for the chamber. Possible to get a picture of the bottom surface of the head?

    The bores look typical British small. I assume it is way undersquare. Are the rod big ends split on a 45 or so relative to the beam so they'll fit?
     
  25. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #25 sowest, Mar 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Kevin. Thank you very much for your comment. We have had some very nice days. I hope you have been able to enjoy some driving in your beautiful car.

    Hi Brian. Thank you for your interest. I read your posts in other sections of the forum and have a lot of respect for your range of experience.

    I am sorry. It looks like I never took a picture of the cylinder head combustion chambers. The chambers are the slightly odd shape of the gasket openings. I will attach a picture of the top of the head and you will be able to see how the valve layout would lead to that shape.

    Yes. You are right. The engine is typically British: small bore and long stroke. The bore / stroke is 2.24 / 3.27 resulting in about 850 cc.

    The rod big ends are NOT split at an angle so they will not fit through the bores. They have to be inserted from underneath and pushed up as far as possible so the pistons can be installed. I made a set of teflon buttons to eliminate any struggle with snap rings.
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