A more possable cause of 355 fires. | FerrariChat

A more possable cause of 355 fires.

Discussion in '348/355' started by chaa, Dec 8, 2006.

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  1. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    Ok i have decided to share what i found when i changed the fuel tank on my 355 two months ago. There have been alot of discusion about the possable causes of fire with in the 355 and time and time again, and it usualy concludes that the cause is usualy pin pointed to the alloy fuel line nuts on top of the engine. Yes these may crack of course, but i would like to draw your attention to a more likely cause of fire in the 355 engine bay. And it supprises me that no one has coverd this before. But i suppose there is not much cause to remove a fuel tank from a 355 unless you oped for an engine in belt change.
    I am suggesting that the problem is indeed the fuel filler pipe along with the method that its connected to the fuel tank. First of all the fuel filler pipe is just a rubber/plastic tube that runs directly over the L/H manifold and is capable of holding about half a pint of fuel. So if ever you fill your tank right up to the brim, then all this fuel is suspended above the hot manifold. If you were to squese the said pipe on your 355 you will see how flimsy this pipe is and also there is no metal tube inside it to allow the fuel to flow, just the rubber/plastic pipe. Go and try it and you will see what i mean,
    Now to the main cause of 355 engine bay fire IMO. Were the fuel tank filler neck stub enters through the bulk head from the rear, there is only about an inch and a half of filler neck stub that sticks through the fire wall into the engine bay. It is on here that the rubber/plastic hose clamps onto using a standard screw clap with a rubber condom like gaskit over the metal fuel tank stub. This is the place of concern!! Its a real crap design.
    When i came to undo mine i discoverd that this clamp was not indeed tight but quite loose, and remember that this is just pushed onto the 1/12 inch stub and tightend via a standard clamp. Due to the small tight area you have to work in, when replacing the filler pipe its very hard to get leverage to push the pipe onto the stub, very hard indedeed:(. After the tank was replaced and every thing back to running order it was then that i realized what a crap design it was:( I went to mates house who also has a 355 and checked the filler pipe/stub clamp. And guess what?? Not tight:(
    So i am concluding that becourse we hear about alot of 355 fires are usualy after a visit to the petrol station. that fuel is sitting in this filler pipe right above the manifold and if the clamp that holds the pipe onto the fuel tank stub is loose, then raw fuel will be able to spray all over the hot manifold. Also if the fuel tank or filler pipe has been removed for any reason, you realy have to make sure that the filler pipe is fully pushed onto the stub and that the clamp is realy tight and check every now and then that its still tight. Even though its a real pig to get to and check and tighten. I bet no one has checked the tightnes of your pipe to stub conection for years;)
    I hope this helps some one.....or maybe not:D
     
  2. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Good find chaa - something us 355 owners may need to check
     
  3. bushwhacker

    bushwhacker In Memoriam

    May 25, 2006
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    Dennis
    Chaa,
    Thanks for the heads up.
    Just out of curiosity, do you know the configuration of the 348 fuel filler line? Is it similar in design?
     
  4. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2004
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    #4 lusso64, Dec 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    chaa - good find.

    I suspect that there are multiple causes of 355 fires, and this is one of them. I know for a fact that the fuel block thingy is another source. Mine didn't crack - the nuts just worked loose and gas was spraying all over the engine bay. The picture below shows how mine was when I decided to hunt for the "smell". A little too close for comfort.

    I'll be checking the filler thingy tonight....
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    Thanks Chaa,

    I'm subscribed to this thread

    Also, can you take some pictures of this? You have a very long paragraph that is a bit difficult to read.
     
  6. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    good find, IMO topping or filling any Ferrari up to full creates more of a chance for fuel leaks and fires from gas spilling out the filler cap on hard turns or issues as you have pointed out here
     
  7. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    Oh sorry mate, which paragraph??
     
  8. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    Oh sorry mate, which paragraph??
     
  9. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    #9 No Doubt, Dec 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    #10 No Doubt, Dec 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    Good find chaa!! So the clamps you are talking about are # 31 in the diagram ND posted??
     
  12. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    Well yes mate but no 27 in the top picture and 31 in the bottom. You fill ya car to the brim and ya clamps loose it will leak or even spray out under tank pressure.
     
  13. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    Got it I will check mine this afternoon!! :D
     
  14. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    We need an official Fchat "service" bulletin to go out on this one.
     
  15. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    Also not forgrtting the flimsy plastic filler pipe that sits just above the manifolds with a siht load of fuel in it:( Think about it, would you feel ok about having a plastic bottle hung above ya fire place inches from the fire in ya home? ;)
     
  16. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
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    Chaa,
    Thanks for the tip. I'll give mine a check this weekend. This is what this site is all about.


    Darrell.
     
  17. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
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    BTW,
    I'm going to have Symbolic do a 30k engine out after the first of the year. I'll be sure to have them pay extra attention to the fuel system. I'm also going to have a compression and leakdown test BEFORE they pull the motor (fingers crossed).


    Darrell.
     
  18. Terry

    Terry Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    250
    Cheshire, UK
    Full Name:
    Terry
    There was a slight smell of fuel each time I put my head into the LH wheel well whilst doing a suspension refurb.

    Looked around for the source a few times and found nothing.

    Then one day my hand brushed against clamp item 27 in Chaa's post and it spun round freely, i.e. very loose.

    Tightened up and no more fuel smells since.
     
  19. JZ TWINS

    JZ TWINS Karting

    Sep 5, 2006
    184
    Great thread
     
  20. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

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  21. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    Chaa, you are a valuable asset to this site!
     
  22. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 20, 2003
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    Brilliant deduction , Chaatson. Requested this be made a sticky, as A)you're right and B)because of (A), you could save life and property.

    One thing - in tandem with your heads-up to check equipment - would a "ground strap" help prevent static-related fires such as the following appear to be?
    http://www.guangmingdaily.com.cn/technique/fuel_dispenser_t200603201.html
     

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