A new era for Lamborghini...

I don't want to come across as a troll (because honestly that is not my intent), being a Ferrari enthusiast, but I must ask...what makes you think a Lambo is anything other than a highly stylistic German car?

There is no history there that is relevant anymore.
The factory, from what I can gather watching "Ultimate Factories" and from what I have read basically assembles parts made elsewhere.
Lamborghini doesn't advance any new automotive technology themselves, do they?

I am glad to see them racing in the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona, etc....but I don't view them racing against Ferrari as an Italian car company with a rich heritage racing against another Italian car company with a rich heritage...they're just out there on the track like the Audis, the Porsches; though one could argue that those companies (Audi, Porsche, etc.) have the engineers developing the technology and therefore are more "true" to the spirit of competing automotive factories than Lambo...

 

Owning 3 vintage Lamborghini, I had the opportunity to drive 2 Huracans. Though very impressive acceleration, handling, braking.......it was as easy to drive as a Honda. The computer does everything for you. The worst being that it blips the throttle for you when you slow down. Though sounded so cool, it's probably the worst gimmick I have ever seen on a car. Blipping throttle is the driver's responsibility.

 

I put my Gallardo superleggera (2008), into dealers for harness fitting, and they gave me a Huracan to try for two days. The Gallardo has a poor gearbox, grabbing brakes, and much less user friendly. I was very glad to get back in it!
Found the Huracan to be bland and disconnected, whereas the Gallardo still has character.

 

I really like the Huracan. It can be used as a daily driver and with the flick of a switch be a screaming exotic that will outrun an Aventador and all prior Lambos. Yes, it's a much more friendly car than previous Lambos, but that's what makes it good.

Personally, I feel the interior of the Huracan is less German than the Aventador.

Have you driven/ridden in any other automated clutch cars? They all do it.
Even newer manual cars auto-blip.

 

It has to blip or the dual-clutch transmission would have high loads on the clutches due to different speed.

Lamborghini R&D Chief Says Stick Shifts Are Dead
Speaking about new era, huh? It's obvious that in "new cars" you feel so disconnected that keeping the only true connection thing - a tough clutch pedal - would make you feel too connected with it! Which they obviously don't want!
Oh, sometimes I hate the way new cars feel on the road, sometimes the power steering is identical to electro-aided steering, which has no road feel to it. You feel like watching TV on a sofa. You here, the road there. Makes you wanna do stupid things on the road to feel that you're actually driving it.
I've got nothing against the progress of easier handling, but I love cars for being mechanical. They feel more direct. You can do whatever you want with electric motors and bunch of sensors, it's like a cheat code against all the mechanical engineering. The result is pretty much a puzzle of different things that do not line up in a certain feel.

 

To shed a little light on this question please see this link and decide for yourself:
http://www.lambolab.org

Here's a little text from the linked site...there's a lot more reading available at the web site:

The Automobili Lamborghini Advanced Composite Structures Laboratory (ACSL) is changing the way the world moves.
Since 2007 the ACSL has been tasked by Lamborghini to develop new carbon fiber technologies and structural concepts. Based on research with the Boeing Company, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), and Callaway Golf, the ACSL has pioneered the use of chopped carbon fiber materials and processes. This research evolved into Forged Composite® technology, which was first unveiled in the Sesto Elemento supercar at the 2010 Paris Motor Show and Callaway's golf drivers. The ACSL continues to provide technology innovation for Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. through close collaboration with the Advanced Composite Research Center (ACRC) in Sant’Agata Bolognese, Italy.

Have fun,
Steve

 

The best brands incite passion.

The best brands have a personality we can identify, or at least describe.

Today, the best automotive brands seduce us by combining technologies to make us "better" drivers than we truly are and able to harness power outputs associated with racing cars just a few years ago.

Lamborghini is not unique in this. I am a fan of their making their cars more "accessible". Cars with "unique character" we may admire but try driving in today's environment. We have all seen the video of Valentino reversing the Countach while sitting on the door sil. No thanks.

If there is a downside, "thrilling" performance can't be obtained legally on today's roads. 120 mph just doesn't feel fast in these cars. Yet look at the carnage that occurs when something goes awry and all that energy has to be dissipated.

I think it is wonderful that Lamborghini is staying with normally aspirated cars, at least for now. The aural signature of the v10 is magnificent.

Philip

 

Sounds like a problem with F1/Dual clutch rather than with Lamborghini specifically.

Unless I don't understand what you mean, every Ferrari F1 transmission does that as well. In addition, most PDK cars I have driven do that. Namely Ferrari, Porsche and BMW M cars (in the aggressive dual clutch mode). I did notice that the McLaren was a lot more subtle about it than the other cars when you were not "on it". But I am not sure how it is even possible to have a proper automated transmission that does not blip the throttle. How else can you not upset the balance of the car while downshifting?

 

Audi now owns Lamborghini and it has improved the Lamborghini cars. The Audi R8 is the best drivers car I have ever driven. I bought he V10 but the V8 is great also.

I have owned three Lambos and they are great cars. I am enjoying my current Lamborghini which is an Adventador. The Adventador looks and performs much better than most cars and I love the appearance. The sound of a 12 cylinder on the track setting for sound is a thing to cherish. It is not a sports car it is a high performance touring car. I wish it had a 458 Ferrari dual clutch it can be clunky under power. My dealer made a software change to the transmission and it helped a lot.

The only car close to the Audi is the C7 Corvette and the BMW M3.

I do not like my 458 Ferrari if compared to the 360 or F430 in their day. The 458 is a beautiful and easy to live with, so in important ways it is a better car. It is just a little soft as a drivers car for me.

All of these cars are great performers and I would be pleased to drive any of them. Test drive the car that excites you and if it compares well with what you want as a drivers experience, buy it

My 2 cents

Lee

 

Richard Hammond had a similar opinion back in 2011 when testing the Aventador:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZiHPLGh-Ek



...and the Huracán last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYpjmc2MyII

 

Lamborghini makes a great car. It wasn't that long ago there were people here posting that Lamborghini would not survive the '08 meltdown. They are for once in a very good position as a company in large part due to Audi's guidance. Lamborghini is by far the most exciting auto manufacturer today IMO.

 

I understand what you mean , in particular if you are speaking about "heel - toe" (for those not really familiar with manuals, there are three pedals and two feet only , i.e. shifting down under braking and blipping needs you to brake and blip simultaneously with one foot).

I occassionally like to blip under my own resposibility in the 599 as well. It works like this. If you want to entertain another petrolhead while "over-modestly" pottering around (I typically keep "low-key" with respect to noise ...), quick pull of both paddles (neutral), quick blip, pull right paddle, gives nice noise, grins and thumbs up . It makes absolutely no sense, of course .

Cheers, Bernhard

P.S.: Manuals and the fun of "toe - heel" is sooooo ooooold school and really matches with classic sportscars 40+ years old only ....

 

A Swedish Haldex clutch with a Swiss Graziano-Oerlikon transmission. Formerly Swedish Haldex is owned by Borg-Warner,US, now.
The Aventador's drivetrain is a perfect example of how non-Italian Lamborghini really is, owned by Germans and majority of their engines built in Hungary.

 

Metal sheets were always bought by Ferrari from others as well, instead of making them themselves . And think of tires, wheels, brakes, ancilliary components (starters, generators, steering, aircon), electric and electronic components, and and and (not to forget the Bosch/GM alarm sirene for ten times the actual price because of two exchanged contact pins )....

But it is true that Ferrari has an unusual depth of production, compared with Lamborghini today. Past are the times, when Lamborghini even developed and made transmissions and final drives by themself ... .

Cheers, Bernhard

 

Big deal, over the years Maserati and Ferrari have utilized ZF drivetrain equipment for their street cars. Maserati used to make some gorgeous "looking" braking systems, differentials and transmissions for their race cars way back when but they went to more conventional stuff for their street cars.

I for one would prefer that Lamborghini had as well. Their front engined tanny and diff are very expensive for parts, hard to work on and some of the VLG members have recently discovered a big flaw in the diffs. I'd be really happy at this point if it was all more available ZF stuff. Then there's the whole Miura gearbox issue. Pretty hard for them at the time to do it any other way I suppose. That begat the Countach's unique drivetrain.

I'm sure Mclaren uses parts they feel are best from all over the world too at this point. So are they not an English supercar?

But there's no arguing the fact that now it is ultimately a German controlled car manufacturer. Less quirky, more reliable using world class technology and methodology but perhaps less Italian charm, whatever that really means now?

I think this gets a lot more interesting when you start discussing how the chassis control systems and engine management systems work now and who is really developing them. I think it's probably a partnership between auto manufacturers and specialty companies such as Bosch. That tends to homogenize what we see on the cars?

 

I had a 25th Countach. I cannot say it was great to drive. Terrible brakes, stiff tranny and steering. Always issues with the AC and yes that is important in Florida. I loved the looks of the car, inside and out. It would be worth keeping just for the looks but not that great a driver.
I had a 99 Diablo SV. Tranny a little notchy, especially first to second. Adjustable suspension sometimes would hang up. Car was fun to drive and, when you got on it the sounds were terrific. However I would never, never, give up my huracan or SL, or Aventadaor for a Diablo or a Countach. Never.

 

I am guessing you have watched the reviews of the Huracan 610-4 and 580-2 by Jethro Bovington (EVo) and Steve Sutcliffe (Auto Express). I think they suggest the drivetrain (normally aspirated, aural sound track, DC gearbox) means the car beats all others in the fun to drive category, including the 488 and McLaren brands.
Philip

 

Well, I am not sure. What it means that non-fitting alloy castings are no longer made fit by an individual in the factory using a really large hammer (I saw that myself during a visit in the factory in the Diablo era!) ....

Well it really depends on how the car is maintained. My front-engined cars are enjoyable drives, the Jarama even more than the Espada. Brakes are slightly modified (improving booster efficiency and response by internal modification) and work just like in any other car. Aircon? You do not get girls to uncover considerably with effective aircon ... . Of course, such a car does go around corners like a modern supersports.

But one point seems to be most relevant imho. If you drive such an old car swiftly, you feel like Niki Lauda on the Nuremburg Ring. Despite the fact that someone in a todays Golf GTI might be tailing you, looking bored and with just one hand at the steering wheel . THAT is the difference. In modern cars, even more in supersports, you do not experience the "speed thrill" like in old cars, whatever your speed may be. If I use the 599 on German Autobahn, the speed may often be 250+ km/h. When driving that fast I permanently tell myself that others have half the speed and 1/4 of the kinetic energy. Because you get so used to comfortably "cruise" at such enormeous speeds, due to sound isolation, suspension etc. And that I regard as dangerous, actually .....

Driving a winding country road at the speed limit with an old car is excitement. Driving the same road with the 599 is *uh*, nice... . But a lot more comfortable, of course

Cheers, Bernhard

P.S.: It is amazing what modern supersports achieve, compared with a few decades ago. I do not want to miss any of both, old and modern. Use depends on the days mood, distance to be covered, and time allowed therefore

 

THANK YOU, Bernard! For a few post there, I did not think anyone was getting it....my point, of course. BUT, even people who grew up with a manual, many do not know about the heel-toe blipping.

BTW, yes, I know they pretty much all do that. But that is missing my point lol.
Sometimes I find owners quickly forgetting about the "original way" lol

 

A lot of it is to do with the business model - they need to make lots of cars.
And that's where the fault lies.

I would guess 80% of the new customers for these aren't necessarily buying the car to drive, rather to be seen in.

When they do drive it, Audi need it to be safe, and not kill these customers.

Hence they make them easier to drive, and less involving for a "real' driver.

Try to explain to people its about the drive, and not where you are going to, and you just get blank confused looks from a lot of people. They see the car as a status symbol, not an experience for the driver.

Btw, the same is true of the other makes, Ferrari are the same (and I own both marques).

just my thoughts.