A newbie who is entertaining purchase of a 328 and trying to do some homework

Hiya

Sounds like you're already doing your homework. That's good.

Please see the following, and then we'll go from there

Ferrari 328 primer, version 0.1 (a work in progress) by yours truly

New Owner's Diary: Week 1 by Bullfighter

New Owner's Diary: Part 2 by Bullfighter

 

Just sold my 328, but loved it when I had it. IMO the 328 is the best 8 cylinder car that Ferrari made. The car was a blast to drive and it sounded just awesome. Shifting the car with the gated shifter is not a problem when warmed up. One of the reason that I sold was because of the service cost even with an independent mechanic it was costly. If you have it serviced by the dealer hold on to your @$$. The service manager does call the shots and will tell you what's going to be replaced it's not you telling them. I think everybody should own a Ferrari at least once and if you can afford it go for it. Good luck.

 

You're asking all the right questions.

Much of what you want to know you'll find out by driving a car or two - no amount of yada yada on here will substitute for that. All the other answers re maintenance costs you will find hereabouts - there was just a big discussion re costs of doing annual & major service work - there is a big variation in what people pay. It seems as though its not difficult to get taken for a ride on this in the USA. We don't seem to have quite the same issues in the UK.

The difference between the non ABS & ABS cars is more than just the ABS - there were a number of other upgrades - most notably the suspension. Details will be on Fchat somewhere if you look.

As a general rule the cars are strong mechanically - make sure you get one whose bodywork is in good shape as well & you'll have a ball for years to come. Basic maintenance is not expensive but some parts are frighteningly expensive (eg to replace the distributor caps rotor arms and plug leads will cost you over $1500 in parts). If you had to replace an ignition coil (there are 2) you'd be looking at $620.

Panic not though because these are not things that you are going to have to replace regularly (almost if at all). But you need to be aware of the facts.

Unless you live in a very dry climate then make sure you have a good dry garage & put a dehumidifier in there from day one. Try & avoid putting it away wet.

Otherwise:
Go & drive some cars
Get a PPI done on any car you think you might want to buy
Find a good mechanic (might be authorised dealer, might not be)
Check the service records thoroghly
Budget for some money to bring the car up to spec after you buy it
Don't skimp on maintenance of major items like cambelts - its cheap insurance
If you like doing some of your own work then there's no reason not to

I.

 

I have had an 87 GTS and still have an 89 GTB. As long as you buy a well cared for example to start with, repairs are pretty infrequent with 328's. Every 5 years roughly, you will need a timing belt change which varies quite a bit in price depending on where it is done and how many "while you are at its" are done with it. Most often, it costs 4-5K. Add a clutch for 1K or so. If you live in the north, often a deal can be worked out in winter months with dealers or independents. The only consistent trouble spot I know of is the tach goes bad. However, you can take it out, ship it to a rebuilder and for $100 or so no more problems. I had to do this with both cars. Minor oil leaks often spring up, but unless they get bad, hit the exhaust or foul an ignition part, they can be left until the next major. They are aging, and small problems are likely here and there. So, over a 5 year term with one big service, your total costs are likely to be 5-7K. I have found every car shifts and drives a little bit differently. My 87 was not too good, my 89 shifts really well. However, these were not designed for speed shifting. The gated shifter is unique among cars and takes a little getting used to, buty most people really like it. 3K miles a year works out as cost effective as far as service goes.

Updates were done throughout the years. The most significant were oil lines and A-arms which were recalled in 1987. If you buy an early car, make sure the changes were documented. Late in 88 came a big suspension change which resulted in the new wheels. These cars have a tighter, more modern feel, but in any objective measure performance improvement would be very minor. I prefer the later setup myself for the feel, but these cars do sell for substantially more and many people do not feel they are worth it. I can't argue. Reliablility wise, the 86's seems as good as the rest, yet they seem to sell for a little less and may be the best value.

I would suggest you drive one or more first. These cars are not for everyone.

Good luck,
Dave

 

Well, the wise men have already spoken, and I can't add much. I've owned mine since December, and have actively driven it since delivery (cross country) in Feb. So I'm still a newbie. This is the best Ferrari site on the web.

I went through a search/buy process that ran about 11 months until I found the exact colors, condition and mileage I wanted. The main point, as Iain mentioned, is that you have to accept that (1) a major service with incidentals is likely to run $4K, maybe a tad more and (2) you have to actively address things that happen with a Ferrari -- deferred maintenance/repairs can bite you.

I wouldn't shy away from buying a car that is coming due for a major service. I knew mine was pushing 5 years, so I negotiated a bit on the price and spent $4K straight off on the belts/bearings, water pump rebuild and fuel line replacement. But I now know it's done properly. Then I replaced the battery myself just because I didn't know how old it was.

I drive mine once or twice a week, always on real drives -- no 1/4 mile jaunts to Blockbuster -- I open her up. I love this car more this week than I did when I bought it. The clutch and gearbox are fine, once you're acclimated. This is not a traffic jam car, though. Unboosted steering means you grip the wheel properly, so if I'm planning a cell phone chat and a latte while running to the mall I always take my other car. You have to respect the car during warmup, especially. You can't fire her up, punch the gas and dump the clutch like you might on a new Corvette. Once it's warmed up, there is NOTHING as gratifying as rowing the gears in a gated Ferrari gearbox. It gets to be second nature.

Random stuff going wrong in the 2 months I've had mine: Tillman linked to my first "diary" entries, but for me so far it was a dirty window switch that left the passenger window dead, a broken hingepost courtesy light switch ($20 from T Rutlands), an old battery that I replaced as noted above, and a trace of oil around the oil pan that will be resealed when I get the oil changed in July. My impression is that the engines and gearboxes on 328s are fairly tough, but the electronics can provide an occasional gremlin.

I keep $10K in a bank account so that if something goes bad I'm ready. When you're planning for these cars financially, just know it's not a Lexus under warranty. I found a GREAT independent mechanic 7 miles from my house -- he has an F-50 and four Lambo Miuras in his showroom right now. I would NOT have bought this car if I didn't know this guy and people like Tillman, Iain, Hardtop and others on this site.

I also would NOT trade my car for a 348. Period. If you fit comfortably in a 328, and like its looks, this is the way to go.

 

Hardtop will be posting shortly...

I only drive mine in dry weather, and when I wash it I don't drown the car -- just wet my wash mitt and mist the car. 328's aren't prone to rust, but you'll notice many openings where water can run down onto electrical items. I was advised to wash the car only when it needs it and then to go easy on the water.

The top on my GTS is tight. No squeaks, no leaks, although I haven't and won't be driving it in a real downpour. The rubber seals on mine are in new condition - I assume a previous owner replaced them at some point.

Aesthetically, it's up to you. Living in San Diego, I'm a huge fan of open cars. IMO, the GTS is better looking (especially in dark colors), just for the drama of the removable roof panel. The engine sound behind you in a fully open car is amazing. The top is lightweight easy to stow -- no complicated motors, etc., to break. And it's more "private" then a full convertible.

That said, the GTS has some flex. The GTB will be a better handling car, and probably safer if you plan to track it.

 

I've been caught out in heavy rain in my GTS & the top doesn't leak. I get the odd noise from it if I run over a pot hole but otherwise it works well - a bit of wind noise but that's to be expected.

As you say there is nothing like a GTS with the roof off on a sunny day & I suppose over 80% of the running I do is roof off (gets a bit cold to be doing that here in the winter!). Having the roof stowed behind the seats could make it a bit tight if you are much over 6 foot tall I would think.

I've never driven a GTB but I hear tell they are noticeably stiffer which is to be expected. Bear in mind that any 328 is not going to be the fastest thing on the road these days by a long shot. It'll get out handled & out performed by any number of modern boxes - but that's not really the point of the thing.

Many GTS's (mine included) would benefit greatly just from having new tyres put on them! Make sure you look at the tyre on the car you intend to buy & check the age of them from the DOT numbers. Tyres might look great but could easily be several years old already on cars like these that don't get driven much

On balance I'd probably still go with a GTS though if I had enough money & garage space I'd have one of each - almost before I'd buy any other F-car (well, maybe except a Dino!) The unbroken roof line of the GTB is fabulous.

I you intend to go anywhere near a track on a regular basis then a GTB is probably the better car for you. Here in the UK there were 542 RHD GTS's & only 110 GTBs. Last time I looked the GTS's were still making more money than GTBs (which I've never really understood!)

 

OK. Just as Bullfighter predicted, here I am.......

Bear in mind I am highly biased towards GTB's, hence "Hardtop". Here's the story. I started with an 84 308 GTS and moved up to the 87 GTS a year later. I liked them both. Then, a local guy was selling a 77 308 GTB cheap, so since I was always curious about both fixed roof cars and carbs, I bought it. I didn't keep it long, but discovered it had better driving dynamics so.......next up came a 94 348 TB and then an 85 308 GTB (really rare) before finding my current 89 GTB. 308's and 328's are not all that stiff to begin with, especially compared to modern cars. Even GTB's will vibrate some going over bumps, etc. If this kind of stuff bothers, you will want the B. They do drive markedly different. When I have had occasions to test a GTS for someone, I find I really don't like the way they drive much by comparison. Obviously, most people were willing to give up better looks and driving manners for an open car. It's a trade off. The targa top does use up some legroom when stowed behind the seat, a consideration for taller drivers. Most of them do leak, my 87 did. Not a lot, just enough to annoy, but I didn't drive in rain much anyway. I understand the Porsche tops were prone to leak too, so I think it just goes with the territory.

The bad news is you could wait quite a while to find a GTB. Not many were sold in the US. The ratio worldwide was about 6.1 in favor of GTS's, but in the US, I think it is more like 12 or 15 to 1. Here's a pic of a few.

Dave
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Equal time for GTS... although I love the triple GTB pic. Looks great either way.
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I agree with Hardtop....GTBs are really sweet. Here is a picture of my recently purchased 1989 GTB with factory delete rear spoiler.....GTBs are rare, 89 GTBs are really rare.....89 GTB with no rear spoiler from the factory for import into the USA....well maybe there is just one! Seriously though, if you really want a 328, be sure you look at both GTS and GTB and decide which one is best...and be sure you sit in it a good long time to be sure you fit. I found out I do not fit really well after I bought a 328 (I am 6' 3")...so I am having the seat modified to be lower than normal.....I have ridden in a GTS and own the 89 GTB in this picture....I love the GTB hands down and I live in sunny California!
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Did you decide to keep it, Mark?

To the original poster, if you like the smoother looks of the GTB and still want the pop-top, there's a compromise option.

 

Well not to hijack the thread, so a quick reply. I just love this 328 GTB I bought.....I took it in for it's Major Service today and looking into getting the drivers side seat lowered while in the shop....if that does not give me enough room, then she will have to go on the auction block sometime this Summer. The matser mechanic at Valtellina Automobile where I am getting the Major done and who who work on a lot of high end Ferraris around Marin County said he had never seen a GTB this nice....his first words were you better make sure you really wnat to selll it because I can tell you, you will never find another one like this!

 

Good job Mark. Glad to hear the change of heart.

 

Hey everyone, thanks for all the advice. I've been lurking on this thread for a while and have finally decided to buy a 328 or 308 GTB. It would be great to have one within the next couple of weeks.

Two questions: First can anyone give me their choice (for for a first time Ferrari buyer) 328 or 308? I have never driven either model so I want your honest advice. I have the cash for both and I like the looks of both. Secondly, does anyone know of an absolutely pristine model for sale?

thanks.

 

Generally the 328 gets the nod for improved electrical reliability, more power, better rust proofing and more modern looking bumpers. If you have the cash for either, I'd nudge you toward a 328. On a more practical note, the other thing I found was that there are more very well kept 328s around (especially '89 cars, many of which were put away as investments). There are always nice red 328's available - check Motorcars International in Missouri, FerrariAds, the ferrariusa.com marketplace, etc. Actually the red '89 at Motorcars looked REALLY nice.

However, some people like the 308 more for its more classic interior, cool fender louvers, etc. The additional repair costs on a 308 may eat up some of the cost advantage over the 328. A really great 308 QV (especially Euro) is something I would have bought. I was actively looking for the "right" 308 QV when the perfect 328 came along.

Make sure you fit in the car. They're the same size, but the driving position can be tough for tall people.

Also, poke around this site. There are a few threads about this topic.

 

I think when you look at the 308 and vs 328 you will develope certain preferences.....I am sure you will make up your mind quickly once you sit and drive both. I agree with Bullfighter so make sure you fit in both! I found out the hard way that I am really too big for the 308 or 328 series.

Personally I started with really liking the 328 GTS....never considered a 308 as I just like the look of the 328 better. Then I saw a 1989 328 GTB...then I fell in love.....took me 2 years to find the perfect 1989 328 GTB. Once you decide on a year and model, be sure to take your time to find the right one.....there are a lot of 308s and 328s on the market.....but there are not many realy realy nice ones. Be sure to get the service history and do not trust mileage on the car....the service history and title info will help verify real mileage.

 

If you are looking for a 308 GTB, it would likely have to be a carb car since injected GTB's are very rare in the US, even rarer than 328 GTB. The carb cars are pretty cool, especially if you like to tinker. They are all pretty old and should be thought of as works in progress. However, 328's are light years ahead in development, rust proofing and build quality. It's pretty easy to find a good, well cared for 328 GTS. REally nice 308's are getting tough to come by. I've put about 18K on 3 different 308's and 22K on the 2 328's. I have found the 328's to be much less needy and cheaper to own in the long run. However, I do know of some QV's that have been really reliable as well. 308's are a little more sleek looking, but the bumpers really hurt IMO. I actually like the QV seats and interior a bit better, but the 328 interiors do seem to hold up better. 328's perform a bit better than QV's, but neither car will scare any new performance car of any brand. The 1980-82 injected 308's are pretty slow as were all US cars of that era. Whichever way you go, paitence and research are your friends.

Dave

 

Surfermark -definitely the nicest 328 GTB I've seen! I'm currently looking at a 11km 1983 308 GTB red/tan Euro model in excellent condition listed at $48K very nice original car but not as perfect as yours it appears.

 

This isn't exactly the place to get unbiased responses. Most of us here have kept their Ferraris.

You'll notice, going over service records, that some people keep a Ferrari for many years, others sell after a year or less. You won't hear from many of the latter here.

But, in general, the short term owners tend to get caught out by the things the original poster is looking into: maintenance and driveability.

Maintenance: There are two approaches to maintaining a Ferrari (or any other performance car, for that matter): You can fix the things as they happen, or you can do a comprehensive preventative service on a regular basis.

A comprehensive major service will add up to a notable sum. But the cost of fixing a lot of little things one at a time adds up, too. You just don't see the bill all at once. If you do your own service, the latter just means giving up some weekends to fix problems. If you use a shop, the former means fewer disassembly/reassembly procedures, which might save money (depending on the shop's billing practices).

Remember that a used 328 is at least 17 years old. Most cars that age are ready for the scrap heap. Figure on a sizable first service, to track down all the issues lurking in the systems.

But having a good quality shop you can trust will be key to a good owning experience. If you keep getting ripped off, or keep having to have the work done over, you'll get unhappy quickly. So it's best to find a good shop before you go car shopping. (And a good mechanic might be able to point you to a good car for sale.)

So that's one reason people part with a Ferrari quickly: those who expend all their funding buying the car can't afford to maintain it. A lot of fiddling little problems can erode owner satisfaction in a hurry.

The other issue is driving.

Now most of us here have the knack, either by instinct or experience or training.

But these are difficult cars to drive, compared to the average grocery-getter. I'd been driving Fiats and Alfas for 25 years before buying my 328, and it still took me six months to get fully "in tune" with it.

I let a friend from the Celica GT-Four list drive my 328. And he couldn't.

Part of that was pride, and part was from coming from the ricer world -- he simply refused to skip second gear on a cold gearbox, and he just didn't have the feel to finesse a cold box. (But the 328 has gobs of torque; you can skip second by stretching first a smidge. Compare that to ricers that need six gears to stay in the power band.)

It is possible to shift into second with a cold box, but it takes some experience.

When I test-drove an M3 back in '88, I was amazed how little feedback the car gave you, compared to Italian cars. You really need a feel for the machinery to drive an Italian well.

But do it right, and it's a terrific experience.

So there's a down-side to owning a Ferrari: Get the feel for the car, and you might never again be content with a mundane-mobile.

 

Lots of good advice here, I'll add mine anyway.

I've owned my 87 GTS for 4 years and 8 months, and have put a little over 15k miles on it. In that time, I've probably spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $11k on maintenance. I've done a lot: major service, water pump, new A/C compressor, rebuilt starter, rebuilt alternator, reworked radiator, new oil cooler, etc. etc.. If it breaks, I fix it. Except for the power antenna, I haven't got around to that. If I were to sell my car today, I'm very confident that I could get exactly what I paid for it over 4 years ago.

The interesting thing about the money with these cars is, how do you want to write the check? Do you want to buy a new (insert new car here) and watch it depreciate over the next 4 years, or do you want to spend the money on maintaining a car that holds its value? It's all your money, and you DO write the check.

I'll tell you that my experience with the top is that it's tight. I've driven my car 80 miles in a downpour, and never had a single leak. If you're going to be one of those owners that doesn't drive in the rain, it won't matter. I love the GTB too, as evidenced by my efforts to clean up the lines of my car, but the car is a toy. I decided that I'd rather have the option to remove the top on a nice day.

I've seen Hardtops car, and the black twin in the picture. They're gorgeous, and I want one, but it'll have to be 'in addition to' my existing car.

 

Great point. I totally agree with this analogy.

 

When people rag on me about maintenance costs, I ask them how much they spend on depreciation. But that's a verbal joust, not logic.

Trying to rationalize the finances of Ferrari ownership smacks of self-delusion.

These are not "logical" cars -- they're passion on wheels.

 

Passion on wheels, indeed.

12 1/2 months of ownership for me of an '89 328 GTS. Just under 10,000 miles in that time. Car still has <40,000 miles on it. My driving is mostly gentle on public roads but there is usually a track day every two months.

Driving is simple - no issue whatsoever with the gate. I warm up the engine properly when I start. The lack of power steering is noticeable when parking.

Weather here - Australia - always warm so virtually always drive with the top off.

It is a weekender and I avoid rain when possible. Water leaks in a little in one lower corner of the windscreen.

Track driving for me is with the roof off. There isn't enough room when wearing a helmet; I'm 6'2".

On the track I slide the seat forward a little. Longer drives on highways I put the seat further back than normal city driving.

Attend to any servicing issues and maintenance straight away.

Performance is 1989 standard. The cars are well built and excellent quality. They take a track day in their stride, no problems.

308s are a little older obviously, but you can enjoy the ownership just as much. Depends on what you want.

Let us all know what you decide, and post some pictures if you can.

All the best,
Pete