Finally got my 71 Euro Dino M-Series up on jack stands and got to check out the underside. - the rear belly pan access panel has a stripped screw that I'm not sure what to do with. Should I just leave it as I replace the other (3) with stainless steel screws? - under each seating area, I noticed a suspicious pair of holes in the fiberglass belly pan with an outline that implies something covered that area...odd since there's no mount points for screws. Having these holes would seem to be bad for water entry (if the car ever sees a puddle!). Any ideas what could have been there and whether or not this is supposed to be this way (I'm guessing no)? - I knew I was missing the front panel that screws to the chassis immediately in front of the main belly pan (under steering linkage), but there appears to be a missing rectangular/square panel immediately behind the main belly pan. Are the front and this rear panels fiberglass or were they sheet metal? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
On my 1972 Euro Dino the front and rear access panels are sheet metal, which I believe to be correct, as opposed to fiberglass panels. I would remove the remaining screw shown in the photo and replace all 4 with stainless steel screws. Regards, Bob.
Are the holes where someone drilled out some of the rivets holding the belly pan? I read the belly pan was originally lined with foam rubber on the upper surface in some cars. When / if it got wet it it would hold water and cause the frame to rust. So I made some inspection holes in mine large enough to put a finger up onto the upper surface. Mine was fine. Have other people heard about the foam rubber issue, or was that a myth? Jim
The holes are probably about 3/8-1/2 inch in diameter, so maybe they're just drilled out for drainage. But that doesn't explain that outline in the belly pan.
Maybe they were drilled as inspection holes as I did then covered with something, resulting in the shadows you see. Maybe the covers were held by molly bolts, like you use in drywall? So when you put your finger thru the holes you can't feel anything?
do the holes line up with the bolts on the seat runner rail? ie has someone secured the seats by drilling holes from below.
Haven't had time to poke and prod my belly pan...will do so this weekend. On a separate note, what is the best way to finish (ie, paint) the fiberglass belly pan. As indicated in my early photo, much of the old paint has worn off and I'd like to pretty it up with a fresh coat. Since it's fiberglass, does a primer have to be used before painting (if so, what kind?) or does fiberglass require a different kind of paint? I'll likely roll it on since I don't have access to paint spray equipment (unless it's spray paint in a can!).
The missing panels were more than likely aluminum as were the large panels on some cars. The insulation sandwiched in there does retain moisture. It's a good idea to look in there and if necessary replace it with a closed-cell material (or nothing at all if you don't mind a little noise. Here's a shot of the underside of a 246 GT that I replaced last Summer. I don't recommend replacing fasteners with stainless steel. They have a nasty tendency to gall, are typically softer (and easier to strip) than high-grade steel, provide no advantages over new plated steel fasteners and if you drop one in an inaccessible place won't stick to a magnet. Don't waste your money on them. Image Unavailable, Please Login
As far as painting the fiberglass underpanels. Clean and degrease the surface and give it a coat of low-gloss black enamel from an aerosol can if you like.
+1. Krylon is lacquer and dries very fast and it's easy to get a very even finish. Rust Oleum is enamel and dries slower and is harder to get as nice a finish as Krylon, but is considerably more durable Both make a Satin or Semi-Gloss black that I like to use. Flat Black has a coarser surface and is hard to wipe clean. I wouldn't worry about priming the underside of the bellypan-- no one is going to see it that well.
My question about priming was whether or not it was needed to get better adhesion of the topcoat to the fiberglass. If not, I clearly would rather spend less time on my back under the car painting the belly pan.
Ron, I would take the time and trouble removing the pan and do a spot inspection and see what you find, most likely, all sorts and all kinds of stuff. Normally, the insulation in the center tube, where the radiator coolant hoses run, needs it as it is there just for that, unless you like extra heat. It also has the bad habit to adhere itself to the chassis tube and create a rust trap. Not a pretty picture, to have that central chassis tube snap... Fiberglass pan, if original, keep it. It all really depends how good a job you want. If it doesn't matter, krylonize, if it does, then buy a small compressor (always practical) and a cheap HomeD. paint gun and use quality stuff. Regards, Alberto
I don't have the facilities or equipment to remove the belly pan and re-install it. I'm sure it's original based on the condition and the fact that it's a single large fiberglass panel. My goal is to tackle as many things as I feel comfortable and capable of handling while still doing a very good job, and then leave the more complicated or risky restoration work to someone I know that's capable of concours quality work, hoping that it's not a long list. So for now it seems I can refinish the belly pan with the plan to have it removed, insulation replaced (w/closed cell foam insulation), clean up/paint framing hidden by the belly pan, etc. at a later date when I have my car in the shop for items I can't/don't want to handle myself.
Do they line up with the mounting bolts of the seats??? We often have trouble with the 'captured nuts" in 308 floors and have to open the bottom to reach them...
Haven't had opportunity to look, but there's only 2 holes per side...wouldn't there be more per seat runner?
1) Myth - no foam between pan and chassis. There is old style insulation wrapped around center tube to insulate coolant hoses. Remove this (at a future time) as it can trap water. I did place a closed-cell foam into the area between the pan and chassis when I had the car apart. As Alberto suggested, make sure to replace the coolant hose insulation with something, as the passenger cabin will get very hot in the absence of insulation. 2) The holes in the pan will have nothing to do with a seat. The seat capture threads are in the raised fiberglass rail-mount on the floor. Furthermore, the large pan is rather thin and unable to sustain any gravitation load - such as your butt. 3) The fiberglass pan can be scrubbed with a hard bristle brush and simple green. Washed with water. Dried. And painted with a rattle can - your favorite black. 4) Removing the pan is tedious but easy. Drill out the rivets and remove. You will learn a great deal about how your Dino works. Jim S.
Jim when replacing the water hose insulation with your product, what do you glue/hold it with, as you cannot do a full wraparound? Also, won't this become a water trap also, as it is bound to get wet...........eventually, or is it the possible lack of the front cover, that will allow water to get in? As an aside, put a 1700fahrenheit heat gun on the stuff, and it is absolutely amazing! You can hold your hand on the other side and nothing, just mild tropical heat... Regards, Alberto
Alberto - You could do a complete wrap around, but it would be a knuckle scraper and tedious. Today I would spray an expanding, closed-cell foam (as used in home construction between studs). Water is not an issue. The front aspect of the "tunnel" is, indeed, exposed to the elements, and the front plate mitigates a bit of this; however, the insulation sits outside this environment. Water could run along the outer surface of the black coolant hoses, within the tunnel. As you recall, this blanket insulator sits outside and above the tunnel, between the chassis tunnel (metal) and the fiberglass tub overlying the chassis metal tunnel. Water would enter the chassis tunnel, but not between the tunnel and the fiberglass. When I replaced my floor pan, I ran a bead of black silicon around the circumference, and smoothed it with my finger (the 2nd finger works best). Hence, water should not enter the space between the floor pan and the fiberglass. Make sense???? Jim S.
Jim, Perfect sense. Only thing not clear, glue the blanket insulator with the foam? I am starting with a bare chassis. Sorry...slow Sunday. The 2nd finger technique is perfect. Thank you. Regards, Alberto
The foam IS the insulator. No blanket or cloth material. The foam comes in a rattle can with long tube. When sprayed it comes out like thick liquid. Within seconds it expands like a sponge. I have not used it, and wished I had. I keep threatening to do it one day. When I had my car apart I carefully removed all of the old material, but failed to replace it thinking,,,"oh, I won't need any insulation." Big mistake. It gets hot in the passenger cabin without insulation. Wrapping sheet insulation around the metal chassis tunnel with the pan off is not too difficult if that is what you prefer. Better now than later. I chose the 2nd finger approach so that I could save the third finger for more important communication. (For those non-medical, the first finger is the thumb.) Jim S.
Check this out for really good info and photos on this subject: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274368
I did place large sheets of 1 inch black closed cell foam between the pan and the fiber glass passenger floor. This is the same foam I used on the engine side of the firewall, just thicker (firewall was 1/2 inch thick). The foam reduces noise; heat from the road was not an issue. The original equipment did not have any insulation between the pan and the fiberglass passenger floor. Jim S.
