If hypothetically there had been a Constructors Championship in 1952-53, I need an opinion on an identity: In those years, the Gordini team ran cars badged as both Gordinis and Simca-Gordinis. Would you consider these the same constructor or different constructors? (Consider that in later years, the same cars with different engines would be counted separately. Cooper-Climax, Cooper-Maserati and Cooper-BRM were considered different constructors. The difference with the Gordinis is that the engines were the same, only the chassis were different.)
Interesting question. Looking at the case of Sauber, for example, they were badged as Sauber, BMW-Sauber, Alfa Romeo-Sauber and now Kick-Sauber. They were condidered by the FIA as different constructors, although over the years the chassis came from the same factory. It's the entry name of the team that matters, apparently. With that logic, Simca-Gordini and Gordini would be different teams. AFAIK, Simca was just a sponsor who left after a few years.
One difference is that Sauber did not change names within any season; those changes only occurred between seasons. In Gordini's case, they used both names in-season. Typically the older T15 car was called a Simca-Gordini, whereas the later T16 was simply called a Gordini. The first used a 4-cylinder engine and the latter a 6-cylinder, but they were apparently made in the same factory and probably the chassis were as well. I think that for the years they raced both types, I'd call the constructor Gordini.
Good idea. SIMCA was only a sponsor anyway. Piggozi, the boss of SIMCA, and Gordini were both Italian who ran away from Mussolini before the war, BTW.
It's ironic how some of the notable French car brands, like Gordini and Bugatti, were started by expatriate Italians!
Why ironic, Jim? France has been the prefered land of immigration for many people from many countries, but the first of these being Italians from Italy, especially as there are some strong similarities between the two langages, making immigration easier. In my part of France (= North-East) even being close to Germany, the italian immigration was very strong during the 1920's and 1930's (the polish immigration as well, and some others too). The poor people, mainly from the south of Italy, were so stunned by the cold winters (cold at the times, not anymore nowadays) that they called my neck-of-woods "il paese di Lupi" (The country of the Wolves). The Italians were so numerous that for many, many years (= until the 2000's), there was a train service from Thionville to Milano every day. I could talk about politicians and Giulio Raimondo Mazzarino for instance (or le cardinal Mazarin in French) but it would look a bit dated (17th century) and a bit like a lecture, wouldn't it? As for cars, you know of course that Flaminio Bertoni styled the Citroen DS, that there always were strong ties between Peugeot and Pininfarina (Phil Hill's company car, when he was driving for Ferrari, was a Peugeot 404) and please have a close look at the 1992 Ferrari 456 and the Peugeot 406 coupé: the two were designed by the same man, and it is quite obvious. And, by the way, the italians hired from us a guy named Jean Todt...(who is of polish origin...) And Enzo and Mauro Forghieri spoke very good french (even if Enzo pretended not to, but he lied: as testimonied by the much regretted Patrick Tambay). The Forghieri family was exiled in France. Really nothing ironic here...the two countries are really close. Rgds
Nobody should ever say anything bad about JT, I love the little man, he is the glue of our golden era And there has never been a better engineer than Forghieri Why were they exiled to France ? I read his book and don't remember reading about that
Mauro Forghieri's grand-father was a political oponent and migrated to France, which explains that Mauro's father, Reclus, born in France, had a first name which sounds french; the family came back to Italy during the early thirties, and Mauro was born in Modena, but the family was fluent in French, and so was Mauro. As for Enzo, Patrick Tambay remembered that the year he eventually signed for McLaren (= 1977), he had a meeting at Maranello with Enzo, in which Forghieri was the designated translator for Enzo; Enzo offered Tambay a Ferrari drive, but when Tambay explained that he couldn't accept as he had already given his word to McLaren, Enzo himself answered in perfect french that he had made a big mistake and should have taken more tie before deciding. I have to say that I have been a tad disappointed by Todt's year at the helm of the FIA. Rgds
