A Question for long Track days in Ferraris vs other super cars.

For me the issue on my Cali is all about brake pads, rotors and tires and I replaced all of those and ready for this year for tracks (less for tracks then daily driving) but better driving style since this will be my second year… rookie was tough and expensive ….. Image Unavailable, Please Login


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Looks really at home on the track

 

A 458 spider top down on Laguna Seca floating over the Corkscrew or doing 165 on the back straight of COTA (turbulence trying to rip your helmet off) is an experience you will not get in another car.

 

Please share your experience about Surface Transforms / Pagid.
For me the ST rotors / RSC1 pads has been a big improvement over the OEM Brembo on my 488 (more braking power, less wear).

 

Lol, I never received the STs, despite a six month wait. It was a colossal series of blunders and I cancelled my order out of frustration!

Presently running Giros which are heavier, but are a bit better for trail braking.

I discovered that the Giros have a smaller surface area than the ceramics and consequently the braking power is reduced. The Pagids don’t fit the Giro hat, which I discovered the hard way.


I may try to retrofit C7 ceramics from GM onto the 458, I’m told it’s possible.

As far as brake fade, I do pretty well with SRF Castrol and stainless lines. And cooler weather is a big help also.

 

You realize, I trust, racing means you are trying to destroy your car. The harder you push it, the greater the odds your car will become a consumable. I remember once asking a spec Miata how he liked his car. He said he hated it. When I acted surprised, he explained, "I'm doing my best to destroy the car. Why would I do that to a car I liked?" Of course, this is why SM is a great race series. You can flog those cars again and again, get it running again for pennies. (I think over 1 million Miatas have been made.)

It's a lot of fun, and I applaud you for doing it. Just have realistic expectations.

 

The front rotor dimensions should work, just not sure where to source rear rotors with the same dimensions as stock.

 

Interesting thread. Ferraris are really just not that great on track, or put another way ferrari has yet to make a car in the Gt3 mold, ie one honed for sustained track use..The newer ferraris are more racy street cars than track machines. The good out the box cars on track are Gt series porches, the Camro zl1 1lt(pretty spectacular) and some of the lotus elige plus the alfa 4c. We'll see how the z06 vette goes. Prior vettes tended to blow motors and bits, and needed some upgrades here and there to work. Judging by what a robust and stellar performer the camaro is, the new z06 should be great.

the key on track is a car not too soft(springs and shocks), and one that can sustain all day. To sustain all day, thats partially a function of weight, but also how the car was honed from cooling to brakes etc. Then there is also cost to run. Ferraris are hugely expensive in that regard, as are Maclaren's, which is why were back to porche who literally sell thousands of track ready cars per year.

Still if one has a fast car(pretty much every ferrari) one of the only places to really exercise it is the track and the car shoudl go there from time to time. One just needs to understand its limitations and stay within those, not overstress the car, suspension brakes tires etc.

There is a difference between a car that can go on track, and one sorted for track use.

For Brake fluid you might want to try endless 600, its way better than srf which feels spongy. pads are key too. Any car being used somewhat seriously on track needs the right brake fluid and suitable pads, anoter set of wheels with track focused(still street legal) tires is also a good plan
Kudos to the guys here tracking their 458 and F12, its gotta feel great and hearing that motor sing as its supposed to, magic.
This summer I saw one 458 at the Glen, was it one of you.

 

Camaro is a very heavy beast on track.

Ferrari Challenge cars are decent track cars.

No one tracks their Ferraris because of the fear of binning them. The expense is identical (more or less) to. Corvette.

GT3s and GT4s are the sweet spot for tracking, no doubt.

SRF is great. That spongy feel is the rear flex lines. Replace them with stainless, it’ll make a big difference.

That was most likely me at The Glen.

 

This reminds me of post # 16 for some reason.

 

I'm old...

 

Fun read this thread. I have a buddy of mine who invited to me a private track day at the FIRM (Florida). Never been to that track but it seems somewhat short so I'm wondering am I in for a world of expenses if I track my Ferrari there? I'm not looking to set lap records but just to enjoy the F12 in a safe environment off of a public road.

It would not be my first day ever on a track I took out a 2017 R8 V10 Plus at Sebring a few years back. That was a multi-day adventure that turned quite expensive. This is a one day shorter course. Other than tires, do I have anything else to really worry about in a more lax track type layout/event?

 

The FIRM is a smaller track, but it’s a lot of fun. It’s tight for an F12, no need to push it in the hairpin or you’ll go through tires relatively quickly, and there’s no reason to do that. The challenge is to make the fewest hand movements getting around the track.

 

IMO, The FIRM is too small/tight for the F12, that track is a blast in a Miata, S2000, 3 series, etc, friend took his F430 there and didn’t enjoy it, took his Lotus Elise and had a blast, drove a Cayman GT4 there and had a blast. It’s the classic “more fun to drive a slow car fast” type of place

 

So just pay for the private sessions for the day, hang out with some friends, and don't try and set any lap records and I should be good more than likely?

Gotcha! Oh well I'll just try to have fun but not push any limits. I took an Gen 2 R8 V10 Plus to autocross and it was definitely out of it's element but still managed to have fun. Given street rubber and not in it's element I hit top 10 on this run...

Yes I went hard on the inputs to see how well the chassis handled some disruption as practice before going out to Sebring....NSFW at the very end I threw out a few choice words....

 

@Nosferatu The Firm like Sebring can be hard on brakes. Your stock brake pads will transfer material to the CCM rotor and squeal and squawk after your track day for 100’s of street miles. They’ll eventually get better but never like they once were.

Tires will suffer on front outer edge since you’re probably at street alignment. Run tire temps a little higher than what some will tell you to run since you run stock alignment. Shoot for 38psi hot and what the outer edge.

If you go… go with fresh oil and fresh new high temp brake fluid. Moltul RBF660 at least. Make sure you have at least 60/70% pad thickness left. How new are the pads though? Pads 50% to less transfer more heat to the caliper and heats up brake fluid easier plus cooks the pretty paint on the caliper and changes it’s color.

Lastly, consider track insurance however as of a few years ago track insurance companies stopped covering cars like Ferrari or had a deductible plus $150k limit. No car insurance for the street will cover you on a race track.

With all that said, I tracked from 2005 till 2019 doing 10-15 events a year…around 20-30 days. This was the best learning experiences, group of friends and most fun I’ve ever had

 

Thank you for reminding me about the brakes. That pretty much describes the CCM rotors on my R8 when I bucket list the track day and took her to Sebring. Tires are replaceable. I just got the car a little over a month ago. Since reminding me of all the other incidentals and the fact that it sounds like they won't insure a Ferrari anymore I think I'm going to pass on taking the F12 there and just enjoy her on the street!

 

Porsche GT is awesome. They all need proper maintenance and fluid changes but the Porsche GT3RS and GT4 is built for track events.

 

My wife and I have done many, many 8-9 hour endurance races in her '14 458CH. It runs as well in the last 15 minutes of the race as it does at the start. Only modifications we made for endurance use are steel brakes, and a transmission cooler. 38,000km and running strong. They're super solid cars - go have fun!

 

Road cars I've tracked: a 308, TR, 348, F40, SL55 AMG, 360CS, McLaren 570S. I've also been instructing since the early '90s. The 308, TR and SL55 tended to run out of brakes. The rest are brilliant. I have a smooth driving style and tend to be easy on equipment.

 

Amen! Same experience here, just a superb car!

 

As well as Lotus out of the box… yes more of a momentum car but incredibly light feeling and agile.

 

The eliges can be safety easily boosted to 320 hp, makes them pretty quick, certainly Gt quick and on a smaller track stock theyll be quicker. My road na elsie 195hp running some toyo r888r at a small track like lrp literaly smokes any new m2.

On a bigger track like the glen My exige v6 cup headers intake and motec (+-380 hp) with some ohlins still runs with a new Gt3. Was faster through the esses Def 10 mph slower by the bus stop, then quicker though the rest to make up the time.
Another supercharger intercooler upgrade 15k puts power up to 460 hp, and some aero and its into another performance category entirely.

 

Very interesting, catching up on Ferrari tracking.
My first post, some 24 years ago was what can be done about upgrading the 308 rear brakes, ( Brembo had a good kit for the front).
I made this post after reading a ton of different forums, all of which complained about track braking, short disc and pad life, fade and spongy pedal, except for the F-40 and 50.
With fresh fluid and pads, i noticed pad fade, then fluid fade on my 77 308.
Street cars are almost never designed with enough heat rejection capability and the ensuing elevated temperatures cause not only braking difficulty, but rapid pad and disc wear, to the point of having to replace pads and discs after a prolonged track event.
I contacted Martin at Girodisc to help with adapting F-50, (355x32 discs and huge F-50 calipers to the front of my 308. I had previously adapted a set of 360 wheels, (18 inch) to clear a brake upgrade. He suggested 28 mm 360 brembo discs and the 36-40, (lotus rear caliper). He then built caliper adaptors and full floating hats for the discs.
I had a local machinist machine flats on the foreward ears of the rear uprights to seat the girodisc rear brembo calipers. The local guy also fabricated 360 parking brake adaptors to fit the stock 360 parking brake calipers and an adaptor for a larger MC.
All that remained was to install an adjustable prop valve to fine tune the install.
The result was DEAD LINEAR braking, almost no wear and the ability to WAAAAAY outbrake the 360s and 458s at the end of the thunderhill straight.

The bottom line is if your brakes are getting too hot, it is going to cost you in caliper overhauls, pad and disc replacement, and perhaps bearing replacement.

PS: Dont use full metalic pads, on the street, in the rain without splash shields - (pucker factor :-(((
chris