...a real classic Maserati!

Walter, what did I do to deserve this kind of RUDE second-hand response almost a year ago? Sorry for the delay in noticing it.

It was a rainy day here today and for some reason I finally had a look at this thread after a long time of not thinking of it. A lot has been shared here over the last year and a lot of it is pretty interesting. But, there are some sloppy "facts" that seem to be little more than guesses presented with no documentation whatsoever. That's Ok if the supposition is made clear at the outset. But, some statements of dubious value have been made so authoritatively here that I am finding it difficult to simply accept any statement of "fact" here as anything more than self-promotional bluster.

Walter, I suggest you check the early history of 2150 more carefully before you state so strongly that "Jon de Boer is WRONG!" about the earliest history of that car. Since my name is actually "John de Boer", I assure you that I do not take your statement personally. I can also acknowledge that what sometimes seems "logical" is not always what actually happened, so I might very well have made a mistaken assumption. And it seems that official documentation sometimes exists that seems designed to confuse more than clarify.

Since we have exchanged some emails in the past, I know you have my contact information. It seems you might have checked with me as to why I believe what Cris Bertschi said I stated on another bulletin board? Perhaps we could have figured it out? I no longer recall where that posting was made and have not checked around for it but I assure you that there is a photo of what seems to be Fornasari (looking a bit like Stirling Moss) starting the 1956 Mille Miglia in a Maserati A6G/54 Zagato with double-bubble roofline on precisely the same day that a Maserati (or was it Zagato?) ledger entry for N. 2150 was made indicating that Fornasari (actually his father, Vincenzo) was the customer for that car. If you care to know more, I will check into the details. I have a nice MM start-ramp image of the car in my computer (perhaps taken from the above vaguely-referenced thread?) but I do not know who holds the copyright and it may not be appropriate to post it here. I will certainly share it personally if you do not have it. The car is unpainted and it seems as if it was barely finished in time as hammer marks and weld seams are quite evident. It would seem that the car was crashed or had some other major failure on the MM as it seems it took quite some time to reappear again. I suppose it is possible that the car that Fornasari used was a loaner (or rental) if his own "2150" was not completed in time or was found to be inadequate for some reason?

Since Maserati (and Zagato) were both capable of mixing things around(!) I cannot say that it was the same chassis, engine and body (or any combination thereof) that was then given a new certificate of origin in 1957 as "2150". And then there is additional potential confusion as it seems that Giacomo Moioli raced a similar car in 1957 (no photo yet seen) well before Luigi Fornasari officially sold 2150 to Giacomo Moioli in 1958, but that is what the paper trail indicates. And then, it is clear from a few photos that Moioli raced in a Maserati A6G Zagato with a double bubble roofline early in 1958 that carried a Verona plate that, when researched, leads us to the chassis number "2150". More curious is the fact that, in the middle of 1958, he won an event with what appears to have been "2150" with a double-bubble roofline and then two months later appears in a similar car that had a smooth roof and bearing the same Verona registration number plate. It seems that something must have happened to the car or the paperwork or perhaps the alignment of the stars? We can make all sorts of guesses about what it was that might have happened but it will take some research to be certain. Perhaps you have all the answers already? If so, will you please tell us? In particular, if I am WRONG about Fornasari having raced in the 1956 MM in a doppia gobba Zagato Maserati A6G numbered "2150" perhaps you will tell us in which car he raced ... as Cris already asked straight away more than once but which you failed to answer. Perhaps it is a mystery to you as well? In which case, you cannot be sure that I was "WRONG". I wonder if Fornasari's co-driver (G. Roghi, perhaps shown in the photo of #311) is still around to tell us something? Did Fornasari's family share photos of the Alfa Romeo cars that Luigi Fornasari also raced?

More to follow ... at least on other matters seen here today ... uh, yesterday.

Il SBAGLIATISSIMO
John de Boer

 

Walter,

Despite your efforts to pretend otherwise, Maserati records do acknowledge cars with the chassis numbers 051, 052, 053, 054 and 055. The only reference I am aware of to a car numbered "049" was in a claim that was made (pr perhaps simply reported?) on a website in Germany a few years ago stating that such a chassis number existed in Argentina as of 1997(?) for a car fitted with an engine numbered "068". No actual provenance was reported. Unlike 051 through 055, no mention is made in Maserati's own documentation so far as I know. It is not impossible that a car numbered by Maserati as "049" might exist but it is not exactly "probable" either. It would seem that there is or was already a car claiming the number? But, if we accept the existence of "049" we would logically start to wonder about "050" and perhaps "048" as well? Are there enough "unknowns" to justify wondering about additional numbers as well?

John

 

I think there have been some mistaken impressions given in some postings about some cars that were racing in the 1946-1950 time period? There were some racing specials built using 6C engines that were not really "A6-1500" based and the cars were certainly not "A61500" in a sense that applies to the production Maserati A61500.

There were a few spider corsa cars built for individual customers with some Maserati assistance possibly given as to engine build or preparation but with the actual car construction taking place elsewhere.

Giovanni Bracco acquired a Fiat-based special with a prewar Maserati engine (supercharger removed and tuned appropriately) from Vittorio Mazzonis who'd raced it in 1946. Bracco ran the car a few times during 1947.

Marino Brandoli, former Maserati mechanic in prewar times, also built a Maserati-engined special and raced it at least once in 1946.

Guido Barbieri had a special built around the prewar Maserati 6C engine N. 1543 and raced it 1946 and 1947, at least once with the moniker "A61500" even though it was nothing like an A61500 underneath, having a custom box-section chassis as its basis. Of all the cars noted here, this is the car that saw the most use, particularly throughout 1947.

Mario Angiolini had a similar appearing car (to that of Barbieri) built around the Maserati 6C engine N. 1555 (which was a number previously used in prewar times as well) but the car was nothing like the Barbieri car underneath and was also not like the A61500.

I haven't checked yet, but I think that it is one of these latter two cars that has been proposed as being a possible previous iteration of N. 052? Notwithstanding the similar steering wheel that has been noted, that spider is not likely to have been N. 052. I'll try to do a bit of checking as I am only working off the top of my head here based on what I saw earlier today ... now well and truly "yesterday".

Then there was a 1948 Nardi-Danese chassis that was fitted with the Maserati 4CS engine N. 1524 ... but it was not a "six".

The essential book "La Sport e Suoi Artigiani" has photos of each of the cars mentioned above on pages 102, 198, 199 and 218.

There was one Maserati-built car that was said to be an A61500 prototype that looked sort of like an A6GCS Monofaro (without the monofaro feature) with a soft top up in the same photos (supposedly from March of 1946) I recall seeing in various references. It may be a conceptual prototype more than an actual technical representation? I don't think I've seen the car shown in this thread so far and I don't know yet where to place it in Maserati "production". I've not really tried yet as more information is needed. A couple of photos are attached. If I recall my shorthand correctly, these scans were taken from Maserati Road Cars by Rob de la Rive Box and Richard Crump. Another image of some text is taken from Auto Italiana magazine of 15 January 1947. It is a promotional description of what is to come from Maserati and teases about the car that would appear (hopefully) at Geneva. I will translate if anyone feels the need enough to ask.

John de Boer

 

I lined them up but failed to "upload". Corrected that, posted ... and decided the juxtaposition of the images was misleading. Had to delete the whole message to fix it. Two photos will be posted here and then one will follow in a separate message.
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As mentioned above:
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OK, I went and looked up the original posting that started Cris Bertschi's query here about 2150 and Fornasari. It is on the AlfaBB (wwwAlfaBBCOM and then to Forums) and you can find it by searching there for "Fornasari". It is from last December and the uncertainties were partially explained at that time. Those possible uncertainties were not related into this thread because of the nature of a simple question posed by Cris.

Il SBAGLIATISSIMO

Oppure "Lo SBAGLIATISSIMO"???

 

I looked around a bit and the car that Nik showed a while back (and which was repeated recently by Walter) with race #134 (perhaps waiting to start a hill climb?) is the car of Guido Barbieri which had the prewar 6C engine N. 1543. So, nothing to do with N. 052 ... although Barbieri's name has come up in the past in association with the chassis number "052". Now we have to figure out why? Was it from some actual records or was it based on someone's mistaken association of two different cars and some claims made as a result? If there is a Barbieri connection between the two cars, that alone might explain the steering wheel similarity or re-use? Not unlike Mike Hawthorn's affinity for four-spoked wheels in the Ferrari cars he raced ... which was not typical for those cars either.

And, although Barbieri seems to have stopped racing N. 1543 at the end of 1947, there is another Maserati 1500 race participation (entry at least) for him in 1950 ... but I've not yet seen a photo to help determine which type car it might have been. He was entered 23 July 1950 with race #28 at the GP Automobilistico di Napoli at the Circuito Posillipo. Haven't looked specifically for anything on this yet even though I have basic entry information and know I have access to more in the Auto Italiana magazine that covered the event. I don't think there was a photo but perhaps some clue is buried in the text?

By the way, "1543" was declared "demolito" in 1950.

 

John,

Thanks very much for joining this discussion. You might recall that we exchanged messages about the A6 1500 back in July.

It's fascinating to see the clipping from Auto Italiana 15 January 1947. The three carburetor "competizione" version was thus anticipated more than 2 1/2 years before this configuration was first tested on #086. It's an interesting reflection of the times that the factory apparently had to wait that long for an interested customer to appear, so that they could afford to implement the adaptation.

Similarly, Rudge wheels as mentioned in the clipping were apparently not implemented until the preparation of another car (owned by a friend, I will not disclose the s/n without his prior authorization) for the 1952 Mille Miglia. This is the only A6 1500 of which I'm aware with such wheels.

I'd be interested in your views about the hypothesis that the 'wide grill' Pinin Farina car, which seems to have vanished and of which little is known, was #052 which was subsequently rebodied by Zagato.

Best,
Don

 

Walter,

You are not the first to voice your opinion about Italians and "logic". I have been studying this stuff for a long time and I have to disagree. Although sometimes we have a difficult time understanding the "why" of some events, there was almost always a practical reason for what we might look at in retrospect (without all the motivations known) and think of as "illogical". In fact, there was some logic in most of what the Italians did. "Logic" in the moment anyway? Although tempted at times, I rarely feel that something was done simply to confuse you or I! And it was not just Italians who were involved at times. We merely have to figure out the why of each specific event that confounds us. When you start to pretend that some some far-fetched notion of what happened is the only explanation (without proof of any kind) then you are espousing theory as "fact" and are not doing a service to the study of history. I fear that this may be the case here. In my original posting regarding this car (or perhaps these cars?) on the AlfaBB, I ventured vaguely into some of the possibilities that you mention here but it seems that you did not learn enough from the Fornasari family to be so pedantic about your conclusions.

I am fully aware that a "demolito" declaration does not always mean that a car was fully destroyed. It was used often in a legal fashion to remove a car from the road once it was felt that the car would never again be used as a car. This was not something to be done casually, however. Although the specifics of Italian laws have changed a number of times over the years, it was mostly not very easy to bring such a car back to life bureaucratically (Some Italians would say, "impossibile") without some kind of subterfuge that was legally risky. Some cars certainly were exported without the appropriate declarations made (nor fees and perhaps taxes paid) and some cars were partially disassembled (for a variety of reasons) and then were sometimes declared "demolito" when a project stalled ... and an owner decided he no longer wished to pay annual use tax on a car that was not being used. There are many possible explanations. But, sometimes a car was in fact, "demolito". If this is not acknowledged, then you will begin to justify the "historic" nature of each and every car out there that is built (um, er ... "restored") starting with a previously discarded cylinder-head bolt (or choose your favorite part!) that reportedly came from the car in question. That said, these kinds of cars have always had what I call "Gleam-in-the-eye" factor. That is, even when all that is left is a pile of parts that most people would say should be scrapped or recycled into something else, there is generally at least a small group of people who will "see" what it once was and ... could be once again! I am one of those latter group and I have run into many of the former so I know whereof I speak.

I will not tell you that some of what you propose is impossible but some of it is highly unlikely. And your theory will need some further factual description beyond a vague sense of two cars existing that used the same paperwork and license plates ... for a time ... and then one of them becoming known as something else. The penalties for doing this would have been quite severe (if one were caught) so it would not have been something to do casually or lightly and, each time a use-swap was made there would have been a risk of becoming discovered, particularly when a car was running in a specifically homologated "GT" category rather than a more liberal "sport" or even more liberal "corsa" category. So, we should not assume that what Maserati did with their Maserati 250F identities was necessarily done to the same degree with their 300S cars. And, while some swapping of identities happened in their sports cars, probably not so much happened in their GT cars, also partly because those were predominantly privately owned. This is complex stuff and we need to examine the why of each and every anomaly. To do less is to pretend to be able to see when one is actually blind.

And now we touch upon a subject that has also been discussed earlier at some length. Engines. Reliability. Re-use and renumbering. Maserati came at car building from the racing side. When you are racing, there is the expectation that a car will race and require frequent maintenance and freshening in order to remain competitive and reliable. As Maserati embarked on building road cars, they were faced with cars that had to leave the works and not come back for servicing after every weekend. At least, that was the hope! Unfortunately, many of these cars were sold to owners who did not know that they should also have a full-time racing mechanic go over the car after each drive across Paris or Rome or ... choose your favorite city or drive in the country. The A6 and A6G series suffered greatly from the phenomenon that we would call "lemonitis" from a production car standpoint. If the cars had been sold into todays market, the manufacturer would have been obliged to replace the car if it had failed to perform satisfactorily as an automobile ... as intended. In that time period, no such laws existed, owners were more tolerant and communication was such that nobody really knew that their experiences were not an isolated event. But, there were a proportionately high number of cars that were returned to Maserati, oftentimes in disgust, that were reborn with a new engine and a new chassis number to match ... along with other documents that made it a "new" car. Some mention was made early in this thread of a car numbered 2111 that had two subsequent identites. Maybe this explains part of the "why"? Fortunately, many lessons were learned and the 3500GT was a much better car in this regard. The V8 engine disussion will be reserved for another day, but it is clear that some re-engineering of many of these early cars is necessary if one wants to enjoy many of these cars as more than trailer queens. It will become less and less politically correct to drive a car that drops a half-liter of oil every time it is shut off in a parking space ... if that is its only "sin".

Returning to the subject of "logic" and 052 et al:
Of course a steering wheel might be re-used. I did not say that it was not. In fact, I think my original wording alluded to the possibility? And, better photos might even prove that the likelihood is quite probable. But, the photos shared thus far are not sharp enough to allow us to come to that as a conclusion. And, even if it should turn out to be true, it is only a steering wheel. For all we know, Fornasari may have used that wheel in other cars as well?

Now, I have seen a gearbox in Italy that was numbered "1555" and I have to wonder if it came from the Angiolini car or perhaps from the prewar car that carried that number. Or both? It was more common (although not universal) in prewar times for Maserati components to be numbered in this fashion but 1947 was not all that far away from pre-war and, the Maserati brothers were still at work in that time period so some earlier practiices were perhaps still more strongly held on to? If "1543" is existing today, let us hope that the chassis is of the correct configuration ... which was not that of the A61500.

I am not surprised that no sign of a double-bubble roof existed on 2150. I would not be surprised even if it had a double-bubble roofline at one time. I cast no aspersions on the car's originality. It is was it is and it is a lovely piece. But, the way these cars were made, all it took Zagato (or any other capable bodybuilder) was to cut all the damage back to a pre-existing weld, straighten what was remaining, form new panels and weld newly made parts in place of the old and paint over the whole lot. In fact, if the double-bubble car was as new as it appeared on the start of the MM, it could well have been the same people who did the original work at Zagato who also did the repair? I know many people who could do the work today ... if the same materials were made available to them. Some are doing it as we sit at our keyboards exchanging messages about what is "right" and 'wrong" about this stuff. In fact, I need to go do some work on cars right now. Unlike some folks who write about this stuff, I've actually done some of the work, mechanical and body, on several of these cars, sometimes under the pressure of a racing or show deadline, and I know how easy it could be to fool me into thinking that all of this historical stuff should be less important than we sometimes pretend it can be. It is important, but not so important as to goad us into saying we "know" things we cannot ... without more information.

What was Fornasari's son able to tell you? Was it something more than "Io non sono stato ancora nato in quell'periodo."?

The housewife ("casalinga") designation was often used to imply "nobody of importance" and these kinds of ownership declarations were often made in official papers so that anybody researching the license plate (in case of an accident?) would not immediately assume that there was someone of importance who was the actual owner. Some well-to-do owners registered some of their cars in the names of servants and other family members, sometimes partly to avoid informing the government that they had excess money lying around for frivolent expenditures. After, in a country with socialist/communist leaning tendencies (politically, anyway) there was no overt acknowledgement that one person should need to own more than one car ... and even that was (and is) begrudged by some.

There's lots more that needs to be addressed here but I've already carried on much too long and touched on too many subjects for one posting. And, there is real work to do.

John

 

Hi Don,

I have enjoyed seeing your input to this thread as it seems you are genuinely searching for some understanding of these cars. I was uncertain if you were one "Don" or another, who also owns (or owned?) an A6 1500 and with whom I exchanged some information many years ago. I was going to ask privately, but now I know. I recall our exchanges and have begun to gather some additional information and sort some of what has been gathered more thoroughly as a result. So, over time, I expect to share some additional material here as well as directly with you when that seems more appropriate.

Regarding the "3C" (3-carburetor) characteristic, I think that we will find that three carburetors were in use on some cars well before your chassis was completed and sold as a car. Not only have we not seen all the build sheets to know what was stated on some of them but build sheets do not always report all details completely (or accurately?) and often do not record subsequent work done, particularly if the work was done by an authorized agent or perhaps someone less "authorized".

The "Rudge" wheels were in use on some (if not all?) these cars, as the "Rudge" designation referred to the splined hub attachment even though we tend to think of it as being a wire-wheel characteristic. I'd never thought to check specifically but I'd presumed that all of these cars had splined hubs underneath the variously-styled hubcaps/wheel covers that were used on these cars. Please correct me if this is an incorrect presumption. Although the stamped steel wheels are clearly standard on these cars, it should be a simple process to fit wires, as I think you know? The splined hub "disk" wheels were referred to early on as "Ca-Bo" if I remember correctly and later variations became known as "Turbo", at least when they had the alloy rim in place of steel.

One car in the USA certainly is known to have worn the wires in older times but I cannot yet say if the time was old enough to be considered "period". I saw a photo about 1987 of that particular car running in the MM of 1952 but failed to note the characteristics of the wheels and did not buy a print ... but it could still be done. An indistinct photo (if identified correctly ... attached here) of the car racing in 1951 at the Coppa Inter-Europa appears to show the outline of a hubcap so it seems the car did not run wires at that point? A clue might be on the wheels themselves as the rims are aften dated.

As an aside, the 1951 Coppa Inter-Europa seems to have had five Maserati A6 1500 participants although four actually started the race. I've not seen another event where this many of these cars were participating. Some of these cars are not acknowledged to be "3C" cars in documentation seen by myself to date but were almost certainly running "3C" configuration at this time? To get the full benefits of the "3C" conversion, one would probably have raised the compression ratio a bit and altered the cam profiles along with some other tuning tweaks, such as exhaust manifolding improvements and more. Dang! All of a sudden I need better brakes!

I am beginning to think that there were two "wide-grille" (Extra Lusso) cars as some photos of otherwise similar cars seem to show a variation in the fitting of the grille ... if it is not just light play at work in some photos? I have noted the thought that the grille was perhaps used in the Zagato-bodied car "052". It is certainly possible that the grille was used from the (one of the?) Pinin Farina bodied "wide grille" car(s) but I think it is too soon to say. If "052" still had its original grille today we might get to look for the Pinin Farina body number but it seems the grille has not survived? I saw "052" once in Italy in the late 1980's I think but it was still awaiting restoration and was hiding in a dark corner amongst many other cars. I did not get a good look and I had no flash so did not even take a photo. I believe I have at least one older photo in my files, however? The car as it is seen in photos today is lovely but has lost some of its original "magic" I think. Some restorer will get the lucky job one day of making it more like it once was. I hope! Logical guesses as to the identity of the car displayed at Paris in October of 1947 could be "052" or perhaps "058". The latter seems to have survived as a "chassis only" at least for some period of time but reportedly had "1947" origins in Maserati records. Working with too little information it is easy to say that it might make more sense timing-wise than "052"? Unless the grille configuration is as significant as it might seem? But, even that might be misleading! And, there is always the possibility that some other part of the (probably original Pinin Farina body?) for the car was utilized somewhere in the car by Zagato so there might still be a numerical trace if it was not obscured or destroyed by its restoration. That is presuming that the car was not born "1946" as the spider con capote that I posted photos of early today?

Lots of questions. Patience and diligence will answer many of them but probably not all. What was Fornasari's shoe size? <answer>. Ah! ... So that's why the pedals are like that!

John
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John,

The "Don" with whom you communicated some years ago is my friend with the other car, who is likely following this thread.

I've seen at least three different manifold configurations for the triple Weber setups, and most are somewhat crude in-period retrofits. The Hofer summary of factory records that appeared in the April 1981 edition of Maserati Information Exchange clearly shows just five cars leaving the factory with the "3C" setup, #086 through #090. I think it is reasonable to infer from the particular comments written by Guerino Bertocchi on the "Collaudo Chassis" (test report) for #086 dated 8 August 1949 that this was the first time the triple carb setup had been attempted. The manifold on #086 is different from and more elaborate than any other I've seen. No evidence has emerged to my knowledge of any other triple carb setup prior to August 1949, either by the factory or others.

To my knowledge all of the cars left the factory with Rudge-type wheels, i.e. splined hubs with a threaded cap. In most cases these appear to be the CABO (CArlo BOrrani) "artillery" wheels with alloy rims, with a hexagonal locking cap and chrome decorative "Maserati" hubcap. By at least 1952, at least one of the cars racing that year had Rudge wheels of a different style, I believe in the larger size to which the text of the Auto Italiana article refers. But I should confirm this.

I don't believe that any A6 1500s ran wire wheels in period, but they do look nice.

Don (#2)

 

Thanks for posting this, Walter. The engine compartment color is interesting, although other aspects (carbs, coil) are almost certainly non-original contrary to Mr. Wilson's remarks. The headlight bezels are quite innovative, not in a good way, and it appears that the instruments were 'upgraded' as well.

Even at today's values I cannot imagine that this car would have been restored. There are very few parts present that appear undamaged and useable. Perhaps the tag in the engine compartment suggests that it was essentially the engine that was for sale.

Based upon peeling paint and interior details I would guess that the original exterior color was grey. Lack of a hood scoop implies that the car is earlier in the series. I have a note stating that the motore for #067 was for sale in the US through MIE in June of 1990. Perhaps Major Chili would know ? Otherwise, given that #067 was originally gray, this is my best guess.

Best,
Don

 

I have a note stating that the motore for #067 was for sale in the US through MIE in June of 1990. Perhaps Major Chili would know ? Otherwise, given that #067 was originally gray, this is my best guess.

Best,
Don[/QUOTE]
Yes, that engine was purchased by me in Italy after a wild, death defying ride to Padova. The engine was rebuilt along with 2 others in Modena and shipped back to the US where it eventually ended up in A6 2030.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Perhaps 0101?

I suspect that the car was not as "bad" as it appears in the photos?

If I were to wish to follow up on this, I would check with Oliver Kuttner (Virginia) who had 0101 and sold it a few years ago, possibly through Tony Nicosia (California), to Japan. Photos have appeared earlier in this thread?

John

 

Wow, that is one heck of a hard hit!

There are two rather substantial frame rails that pass all the way to the rear, each of which is connected together by a cross member behind the fuel tank. This is also quite substantial. For the back end to be pushed that far forward would have transmitted some fantastic amounts of energy and inertia. Even today repairing such a chassis without major cutting and replacement of the bent and twisted sections would be far from an easy task. Given that these cars were worth not far north of $10K to $15K when running in full order and in tidy shape, I have to say it is unlikely this one was saved and restored.

I do not have the chassis numbers but one Cabriolet (possibly the only cabriolet) and one other coupe were both scrapped in South Florida in the early 1970s. Today nothing but a few parts remain from either of those two cars. I was never able to figure out which chassis numbers they are but do have the PF body number for one of them if anyone knows how to trace a chassis number backwards through the PF records.

Cheers,

Bill

 

Completely agree. Everything rearward of the firewall is mangled and would need to be remade, and the front bumper suggests that the frame was twisted through its entire length. I'm convinced that this car cannot exist today, other than as a loose engine. Sure wish someone would sell me that radiator grill, though - it's the only decent-looking component on the car.

Thank you, Major Chili. But I note that in Viale Ciro Menotti No. 60, September 1991, page 41, you wrote that engine #2022 was installed in #2030. Did engine #067 precede or replace #2022 in #2030 ? Even more confusing, barchetta.cc claims that #2030 carries engine #084. You stated in the article that A6 1500 #084 carries engine #2030 (as does Walter in post 239 above), so there is symmetry that might imply a simple swap.

Also, the article gives the date of your purchase of engines #2022 and #2017 as September 1988. I imagine that the engine from our mysterious hulk in Virginia could have found its way to Italy in the thirteen years between its junkyard sighting and your purchase, so this would seem not to rule out #067 as the wreck.

John, aside from what seems to me to be the improbability of restoration from such comprehensive damage (and why not make a gorgeous Frua spyder like 2030 instead ?), I do not think this could be a car as late as #101 - it lacks the hood scoop that #101 and other later cars have today. Photo of #101 in Japan is below.

Thanks and best regards to all,
Don
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Thank you, Major Chili. But I note that in Viale Ciro Menotti No. 60, September 1991, page 41, you wrote that engine #2022 was installed in #2030. Did engine #067 precede or replace #2022 in #2030 ? Even more confusing, barchetta.cc claims that #2030 carries engine #084. You stated in the article that A6 1500 #084 carries engine #2030 (as does Walter in post 239 above), so there is symmetry that might imply a simple swap.

Also, the article gives the date of your purchase of engines #2022 and #2017 as September 1988. I imagine that the engine from our mysterious hulk in Virginia could have found its way to Italy in the thirteen years between its junkyard sighting and your purchase, so this would seem not to rule out #067 as the wreck.
END QUOTE

Being that I am currently in Buenos Aires means that I do not have access to my records.
I believe you are correct about 2022 and not 067 going into the 2030 chassis. It is possible then that the engine #067 was sold onto Italy. Too many engines and too many years gone by can do that to a guy.
At one time I had 5 450 S or should we say 5.0 and 6.4 liter V8 boat engines that I believe were not numbered.
Ciao,
FGM

 

My apologies. I thought I'd read earlier here in this thread that the maroon car was "0101" but I've just gone back and had a look again and clearly misremembered. Should have checked first! So, now I will have to remember that the maroon car is probably "059" and the red car is likely "0101". Regardless, it would be nice to know where 0101 came from before Kuttner?

Again, sorry for the distraction of the earlier post. But, I still think it is an error to assume the accident-damaged car is "destroyed" and good only for parts. Pinin Farina parts will have been made to fit that particular car and would have to be modified to fit another.

John

 

I'd forgotten that I'd seen the green car (089) in Milan a couple of years ago with its long-time owner. Was sorting through photos in the computer and came across some that show a few details. My photos show that the engine fitted is number 089 even though it had reportedly been fitted with engine 085 (?) for a time. I did not notice at the time and now have to ask the owner about this detail. The car is not restored so much as "preserved" and parts of it are getting to the point where some restoration might be in order? Still, it is a car that feels quite evocative of times of old.

As of 2007:
Chassis 089 Green paint that seems mostly fairly old but I cannot say it is "original".
Engine 089 with single Weber 36DCR
Pinin Farina #10205 (I did not find the entire number but the #205 was stamped in the glovebox door hinges)