Last Thursday, we packed up the cs and made the 200+ mile drive down to the bay area for service and an exotic car show for Make a Wish charity. The first half of the drive is normally a joyous event, as the roads from my coastal home through wine country vally's and over the coastal mountains are twisty and very fun to drive. This time, however, it was different. My former favorite road has degraded over the last couple of years and combined with the weight of two people and our bags for 4 days, the drive took on another element altogether. The road undulations and patches made the suspension clank and groan like some old clunker. The whole experience made me, for the first time, really examine my Ferrari ownership. I think its shameful and ridiculous that these prized almost $200k cars, so special for their handling, sound like junkyard beaters on bad roads. I took the car into FofSF, "the factory owned shop" just before warranty expired a couple of months ago and they claimed the issue was fixed. No, they could not substitute 430 parts on a 360 because Ferrari forbids it! Yeah, right, fixed for about 15 minutes then all the same bs noises returned, adding insult to my anger. This time I wisened up and took the car to someone who actually cares. Not only about my driving experience but his shop reputation and the value of creating good client relationships through quality work. Brian Crall, Rifledriver on this board, not only cares about the outcome but listens to the needs and concerns of the owners, unlike FofSF. Ferrari should have recalled all the stradales and done a proper front suspension fix, imo. And if anyone from FNA or FofSF wants to contact me about my dissatisfaction, I would welcome it. My email is public record through this site. The result of having a shop who actually went through the entire front suspension and tightened everything up, was willing to install the most agreed upon fix, the 430 teflon shock pins, was night and day. On the drive home, with even more weight was a blast. Fast, true, and inspiring in the grip and handling. Just as the car was intended and as paid for. A pleasure, no actually a thrill. Thanks Brian for a job well done, AND a fair price at that! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Im glad your fixed the problem, was there anything wrong with the standard part you replaced or were they just rubbish? We love to hear about good garages and i guess you found one I hope you enjoy the rest of your CS experiance. Si
John, saw your car at Danville but didn't get a chance to catch up. I agree that the sqeaking is unacceptable even in a CS.
Glad to hear you got some satisfaction!! On hearing about the famous CS creaking noises, some people have suggested 'just live with it', its part of the car. And I think a mechanic or two has said the same when solutions have been elusive. But as an owner, pestered by the same thing as you experienced, I felt irritated as well as subliminally worried something bigger might be involved. You're so right: who wants to drive a $200K car with old truck like squeeking/creaking noises! I was one of the first to stumble on the 430 shock pins as a solution. No more lubrication for me thanks, didn't care that it wasn't covered under warranty, didn't care there was not technical bullentin supporting replacement. Just put the damn things in, cost to me was $600Cdn installed. (And, at that time, the ultra-hard line OEM replacement parts only regulations from Ferrari hadn't yet taken effect.) Immediately ALL noises stopped with the teflon coated 430 shock pins. And no noises have returned for 5K miles so far. I'm informed it may not be a lasting solution, that all front shock bolts need tightenting as well. But I couldn't care less, I'd pay another $600 in an eye blink to get rid of the damn noise. I think its PATHETIC that Ferrari has not contacted all CS owners, through dealers etc., to (i) describe the problem, (ii) provide updates on treatment, and (iii) provide assurances they are tracking down a permanent fix. That's the kind of quality assurance Ferrari owners want!! Yes, its a small problem, but those creaking noises are like a mosquito buzzing in your face when you're trying to sleep, then disappearing only to come out and pester you again. CSs should not have mosquito-like characteristics.
Does anyone know if it's possible to contact Ferrari North America or even the factory directly, bypassing dealers in order to get a resolution? Does anyone have contact info? Would it be worth it or is it a waste of time? -Peter
ferrari replaced all my lower shock bolts (front and rear shocks) with 430 teflon-coated shock bolts under warranty (in fact, they refererenced a technical bulletin on my warranty receipt when they did the work). funny that ferrari told you they would not use 430 parts on a stradale. the ferrari part number for a stradale lower shold bolt is the exact same part number as the 430 lower shock bolt. they use the same bolt for both cars. the bad news is that even after they replaced the lower shock bolts the same suspension noises are beginning to return. but the teflon-coated bolts seemed to have helped for several months and a few thousand miles. but now the same noises are beginning to come back on one of my stradales. the other one is still quiet, but i'm sure that eventually the same noises will come back. i posted more details recently in a different thread, but i think the problem is not caused by the lower shock bolt per se, but rather it seems to be occur when any of the suspension bolts come loose (even a little bit loose and the noises seeem to come back). i've talked to someone i know at FNA and they don't seem to care at all about this problem. if all of us stradale owners had organized together and more formally complained to ferrari then maybe we might have gotten their attention. but i think now that since most of the cars are out of warranty they are just going to continue to blow us off. one thing that makes me feel a little better is that a ferrari mechanic told my friend (ducati when he took his stradale in for the saqme suspension noises) that the enzo makes even more suspension noises than a stradale )) so i guess we're in good company... btw, for those of you who think the teflon-coated bolts solved your suspension noise problem you just aren't driving your car hard enough to wiggle anything loose yet. but eventually things will wiggle loose and the noises will come back. don't beleive me? take your car out for a track day and then see what happens.
i've talked to someone i know at FNA and they don't seem to care at all about this problem. if all of us stradale owners had organized together and more formally complained to ferrari then maybe we might have gotten their attention. but i think now that since most of the cars are out of warranty they are just going to continue to blow us off. Pretty sorry state of affairs imo. I am a much happier and more confident driver when my suspension does not feel like it is about to fall apart. Bet the GT3 does not make this kind of noise......! Rick, thanks for the gloomy prognosis. Brian and I spoke about it and he agreed with you, it most likely will return. He thought a full retightening every 5k or annually might do the trick. A great pleasure for the moment, at least.
All of my LOW sports car sound like that, part of the reason is NY's horrible roads... It does piss me off on both accounts, but blah w/e, i know in the back of my mind nothing is wrong but it does suck that such expensive cars become uncomfortable in the comfort and sound department over non JUST PAVED roads! We should trade John, my GT2 for your CS
i know how you feel. i'm more than a bit OCD so little clicks and clacks drive me nuts! but the good news is that i think/hope brian is correct in that most likely all we have to do is periodically pop the front wheels off (very easy to do) and simply retighten all the suspension-related bolts. it's a small price to pay for driving such a special car as a stradale. i would have been much happier if ferrari had simply told all of us years ago that the stradale is not as forgiving as a modena and it will require some minor extra TLC to keep it tight. i lived with clicks and clacks for two years when i believe all that was necessary (probably) was to simply retighten the suspension bolts every couple thousand miles or so. i can live with that!
i don't want to discourage you from contacting FNA and complaining, but i personally think it is a watse of time. i've been in touch with a high up service guy at FNA for over a year about this problem and believe me FNA doesn't care at all. and now that most stradales are out of warranty i sensed from the tone of some emails i ahd with this guy on this topic very recently that they even care less now than they did before. and this guy is a "friend" (more or less) of mine. they seem to be taking the position that replacing the lower shock bolts with 430 teflon-coated shock bolts solved whatever "problem" there may have been that caused suspension noises. if the noises have returned then they are most likely caused by some other components (such as ball joints or suspension arms) which are now out of warranty for most stradale owners. i reminded him that i have been discussing the same exact suspension noises with him personally for over a year. his response was that they would have to examine the car and determine what was causing the noises before they would make a decision if the repairs would be covered under warranty or not. i got the impression that he is setting the stage to basically sweep the problem under the table and stall and point fingers and make things fuzzy and take positions that any new noises are not related to shock bolts and therefore must be some other problem which is not covered if your car is out of warranty. very disappointing. BUT the good news is that i think the solution is fairly painless and simple. all we need to do is to simply retighten all the suspension-related bolts on a fairly regular basis (every couple thousand miles or so). i can live with that so i'm probably not going to waste my time and energy arguing with FNA.
I'm a Porsche guy - never owned a Ferrari, but I do drive my brother's F430 quite a bit. Anyway, I thought I'd add my very similar experience with Porsches to this thread. For many years I owned a GT3 Mk-I. I was always amazed by how refined that car felt for such a hard sports car. Then I drove a Mk-II for a while, also very refined. Then a year ago I traded the Mk-II for an RS (996). The first day I took it home I was shocked by the constant twangs, clunks and groans from the suspension. So I took it back to the shop for a checkup, where they basically took the suspension apart, lubed various bearing surfaces, and put it all back together. For about a week it was all nice and quiet. Then slowly the noises returned. I have come to believe that the track-biased versions of these sports cars have noisy and clunky suspension, probably due to the increased spring rates. Over time I have come to terms with the noises, and now I think they just add character. If I wanted a refined GT3, I would not get the RS version. I'm guessing the same can be said for the 360 vs CS F-cars. I have driven a 997 RS but I didn't think to listen for suspension noise. I wonder if the 997's are as clunky as the 996? BTW, riverflyer, that is an awesome pic of the magnificent CS against that rock face.
It's not uncommon for a standard 360 to also require torquing of suspension components as routine maintenance. And could it be that 'some' of these noises are merely characteristic of the CS's no-nonsense simple race car build. As your aware the factory stripped comfort content wherever possible, deleted sound-deading material throughout, and used carbon fiber as a structural element on the doors, seats and underbody tray. Further, lowered and increased suspension stiffness 25% in front and 15% at the rear all riding on super-soft compound and ultra-stiff sidewall tires. The Challenge Stradale is a road legal race car and everything about it = loud. Have you ever driven or sat shotgun in a 'broken in' 360 Challenge car? Even on a perfectly smooth tarmac you hear and feel everything. Now put that car on public roads.
I just did a complete suspension nut and bolt check this weekend. Some were just a little loose and most were tight. The new Ferrari Torque setting for the lower shock bolt is 80 nm up from the original 60 nm. Both seem too low to me. So I use a good old fashion tightening until it feels right. Probably close to 100 nm. The swaybar bolts go into aluminum and these also loosen over time. These are small bolts and probably could strip if too much torque is used on these. So I used a good solid snug here. I also think some of these sounds are chassis flex and maybe front fender to chassis movement. After all this car is race car stiff. I understand the Enzo's have the same thing going on.
I don't have a stradale - just a regular 360 Modena, but I've been following this thread just out of curiosity. Is the cause of this repetitive "loosening up" because the nuts that are being torqued are loosening up or is it the suspension components somehow developing some "looseness" through wear and tear? If it's the nuts loosening, is there any value in trying to use some Lock-tite (or similar) to help prevent them from backing off at all? I'm sure the answer must be no or someone would have already done it. I assume the issue is far more complicated. Just thought I'd toss it out since it came to mind...
An in general reply to the various queries about cs rigidity and chasis flex, bolt loosening etc. All I know is that my car had become increasingly noisy. Combine that with an extra heavy load AND a poor road surface and it sounded like it was beating itself to death to the point that I was altering my normal driving style and picking my way for the smoothest line in EVERY corner. Now, 4 days later. Same road. Even a bit more weight. Car now is rock steady, no noise, suspension tight and handling spot on. So that eliminates speculation about other noises being mistaken for front suspension. Like Paul said, if I have to pay for new shock tower pins every year and tighten all the bolts once a year, the price is well worth it. Nevertheless, I have driven a number of full race cars that have much less suspension noise and maintain, my opinion only of course, that Ferrari could have engineered some more high tech fastening componentry. I do not think just becuase the cs is a mission built performance car that it needs sound like a bus!
after i heard that the enzo also clicks and clacks i don't feel so bad sure i wish my stradales didn't make annoying suspension noises, but i think it is "manageable" by simple periodic "retightening" of all suspension bolts. the next time i have a chance to talk to someone more experienced than myself, i am going to ask about using lock tight. maybe it's more an issue of the bolts stretching a bit or the relatively soft aluminum giving way a little that results in a little looseness over time? i'll try to find out.
Wait a minute John....You actually drive your CS!? OK, now I understand. Your not playing by the rules so you'll just have to deal!
I had my CS done with the update and we will see if I hear th noise over time and mileage. My dealer has been great to deal with and put in the efforts needed to ensure the car is right and that I am happy. It has been since I've owned the car new. Lucky for me that my experience has been positive. My 996 GT3 makes all sorts of twinks and clicks on rough surfaces and even up and down driveways. It is just normal, not trying to accept it for what it is, but the reality is that to reduce those noises that exist in moving suspension components, cars has been using softer rubber materials to dampen or eliminate the noises. The GT3 and the CS goes the other way by using harder bushings and solid metal bushings in favor of performance...which are part of the formula that quiet them down. I guess I didn't expect Ferrari or Porsche to have a magic formula that will permanently eliminate those noises since I have moded many of my Japanese cars and mostly with suspension mods. Changing to stiffer dampers, stiffer springs, delrin or metal bushings, more metal to metal contact surfaces, the noises will be there. I have spent time chasing them down in those cars and often a noise that came from the front were actually the rear and metallic noises ended up to be delrin that needed to be lubed. They make the annoying sounds that my race cars had made...older ones, newer ones, don't seem to matter. (Although weight has a lot to do with it, lighter race cars seems to be have much less noises.) Granted I would like the noises to not be there at all, but I am happy with what is in the GT3 and the CS given what I gain in performance over the standard offerings. Everyone has different expectations I suppose and we all want to have it all. I just accept the fact that it is all a give and take, but try to take more than give whenever possible. It makes for a happier experience overall. I am surprised at the inconsistency in service level from dealership to dealership and owner to owner...both Porsche and Ferrari. I didn't really expect that.
Sice the car is so troublesome and on the verge of breaking down I say you sell it to me for $100,000. Sorry Ferrari didn't solve your problems but sounds like through Fchat things are getting better. I suppose that makes my offer of $100K less attractive but so be it.
