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About to Change 355 T/O Bearing

Discussion in '348/355' started by ametelsky, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. ametelsky

    ametelsky Rookie

    May 13, 2007
    17
    Rochester, NY
    The Upstate New York season is about over, and I was planning my last real drive today - Of course that was before the huge puddle of clutch oil and the embarrassing stall at the stop sign. I'm now about to dig into the drivetrain for the first time, and have a few preliminary questions, if anyone can chime in. The car is a '98 355 Spider 6 speed.

    first, I've searched for hours looking for photos and instructions on jacking and clutch work. It seems as though many of the posts have attachments that are gone or don't open.

    What I have found seems to suggest i need to pull the back bumper and the muffler before getting to the bellhousing. Sound right? Are there any "gotcha's" there I should know about? I should point out that I am pretty fair with the wrenches, and have a small machine shop at my house; so I'm not a beginner at this type of thing, just new to F Cars.

    I know about the jack points intended for tire change, under the door sills, but what are people using for major work? I like the looks of the frame ends, right where the bell housing mounts on each rail, but would love to hear what others are using. Also, if I use the frame on each end as a spot for jack stands, what should I use as a jack point? I've seen some posts that say you can lift at the center on the bellhousing, but all that aluminum looks a bit frail.

    When I get things out of the way and actually go to open up the bell housing, are there any surprises? I hate that lap full of springs and the subsequent "where the hell did that come from?"

    Any suggestions, links or thoughts would be most appreciated - BTW my nearest service is 300 miles...

    I will try to post pictures when I'm done if I can figure out how.

    Thanks,
    Alan
     
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  3. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    Jul 29, 2002
    2,521
    Suwanee Georgia
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    Jeffrey Davison
    Best suggestion I can offer, having had this done last year... is to get the Hill Engineering braering from Daniel at Ricambi. A little less costly than the OEM part but waayyyy better quality, (build, fit, finish and materials).

    If you're going to replace the t/o bearing, it would be unwise and foolish not to use the Hill Engineering part.


    JD
     
  4. ametelsky

    ametelsky Rookie

    May 13, 2007
    17
    Rochester, NY
    Jeff,

    Did you have to buy the Hill flange as well at the T/O bearing? I was figuring on going with the Hill, but wanted to talk to Dan on Monday. Thanks for your opinion.
     
  5. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    I'm sitting at the airport on my iPhone (no books handy), but I think on the 1998 you will not need the flange. Nonetheless, we usually send them along (just in case), and if you return it unused, there is no charge. If you keep it, we assume you used it and bill your credit card. If memory serves, we give a ten day grace period - two weekends- for non-shop customers.

    Buzz me on Monday and we'll get you hooked up.
     
  6. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,416
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    Jay
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  8. ametelsky

    ametelsky Rookie

    May 13, 2007
    17
    Rochester, NY
    #6 ametelsky, Nov 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks for the replies,

    Daniel - I will definitely be in touch on Monday - Thanks. I have sucessfully gotten her taken aprt and the failure was the same as others - see below. I will create a new post when the job is complete with step by step photos and notes on what I did.

    Is there a way to check my clutch without pulling the assembly apart? Since it's still neatly in the bell housing in opne nice package, I hate to open another can of worms. Still, The car's at 27k mi, and I have no idea what the clutch history is. Still feels fine driving...

    Alan
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  9. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
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    Did much of that oil leak spray onto the clutch disk? At this point you see how it was fairly easy to get in there, I'd be inclined to wait until it slips - who knows, may be another few years. New clutch disk and pressure plate run about $750 or so.

    Be sure to post up step by step instructions, those are always a big help.
     
  10. ametelsky

    ametelsky Rookie

    May 13, 2007
    17
    Rochester, NY
    #8 ametelsky, Nov 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Jay,

    The disc didn't get wet, but I dove in anyway. Since you have so much experience, I know you'll have comment on these numbers and photos:

    My disc is at about 7.2mm uncompressed, at the outer edge. 8.0mm uncompressed, at the hub edge.

    It was about 7.0 at the outer edge when compressed.

    there seems to be just under a millimeter of material above the rivet heads.

    wear seems even, but tapered so the edge is worn more.

    Whaddaya think?

    Alan
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  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Hugh G. Rection
    You won't need the flange. My car is Feb 1997 production and didn't need it, yours is later, so you won't either. You could probably get another 10 or 15k miles out of that clutch disc, so choice is yours, as to whether you should go ahead and replace the disc and pressure plate (another $800 or so). I would go ahead and do it. I am no expert, but there are a bunch of seals and stuff that should also be replaced...and you probably should have the flywheel resurfaced as well.
     
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  13. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    ^ But yours might have been retrofit at some point earlier in its life. For a while, Ferrari issued an updated flange+bearing as a kit number. If your bearing had previously failed, that would explain the flange being already "updated".

    Just to be on the safe side, I would prefer to send it anyway. There's nothing worse than having the whole thing ready to go back together, then realizing you need something additional.

    Heck, in our pool of flanges, I'll bet some have traveled 50,000 miles in the past six months!
     
  14. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Hugh G. Rection
    BTW, good time to examine your cats, and make sure the cores are still secure in the housings, and not crumbling apart. Also, check your bypass Y pipe up above and make sure the heat shields are secure and not rattling or moving...if so, you can tig weld them in place.
     
  15. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
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    Jay
    Sounds like you should go ahead and replace it while you're in there. Mine was slipping with just a bit less meat than yours has, but I also have the F1 and my disk was soaked with oil. If you're not in a rush, you can just send the disk out to Clutchmasters (in CA I believe) for a resurface - that's my plan for my next clutch job.
     
  16. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    If you have your flywheel resurfaced, make sure that they understand there is supposed to be a slight dish to the surface, that is why the outer edge of the disc is worn more than the inner...it is supposed to ensure smooth engagement. More an issue with the F1 cars, but good to keep the way the factory intended.
     
  17. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,145
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    chris
    I just went through this repair a few weeks before. My 355 is a 1995.
    If your flywheel and pressure plate are ok (you didnot run into the rivets and from what I understand you did not).....then I would just resurface using emery paper. Your flywheel will last longer if you do not resurface if it is not necessary.
    I sanded both and in less than 10 minutes and both surfaces looked like new.
    As my pressure plate 'fingers' were all in good shape (lined up properly) I decided to re use the pressure plate however I did replace my disk (from Ricambi).
    I also replaced my throw out bearing and flange (from Ricambi) with the Hill's Enginerring Unit as my throw out bearing showed some wear (play).
    You also need to replace the 'triple seals' on the main shaft as well as 2 o-rings for the flange.
    You must stretch the triple seals to install (and they will shrink later) but DONOT over stretch......I used a plastic sewing thread cone which allowed me to stretch the seals just enough to clear the shaft.
    When installing the pressure plate you can line up the pressure plate /clutch disk with a 19mm socket (saves the cost of a special tool).....and tighten the screws only a 1/2 turn at a time till you have the bolts tight (avoids warping the pressure plate) and DONOT OVERTIGHTEN the bolts.

    After you install the flange & throw out bearing its time to install break fluid and bleed.
    WHAT A PAIN. I tried a vacuum bleeder to suck the fluid back -did'nt work. Next I got an aquarium siphon (2.00) ....shortened the hoses and pumped the brake fluid back through the
    bleeder into the system (10 x) ....each time the clutch pedal rose a little.....till you had enough pressure to bleed the clutch in the normal manner.
    Next install the clutch cover.....either turn the wheels to align the shaft ....or what I did was just reach in and turn the main shaft a few mm and try to slide the clutch cover on....2 or 3 attempts and it slid home......reinstall exhaust and test car in the drive.....if all ok ....install bumper and your done.

    My clutch works great and there are no issues.

    But as your in there....I would replace the clutch disc ($300.00) or get it resurfaced. Then your done for another 50k or so.
     
  18. marioz

    marioz Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2003
    1,839
    Cedar Mills,Ontario
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    Mario
    Brett for your info
     
  19. mesoscale

    mesoscale Formula Junior

    Feb 19, 2004
    298
    Anyone know the torque specs for a new throw out bearing on a 95 355, manual. I'm using the upgraded Hill Engineered version.
     

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